If it hadn’t, everything which was alive before Adam sinned would still be alive. The earth would have been overly crowded by now, wouldn’t it?
When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?
Wasn't Original Sin a good thing?
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Wasn't Original Sin a good thing?
Post #1From what we know now it’s a rather good thing that death entered the world and that every living being inherited Adam’ guilt and died too.
If it hadn’t, everything which was alive before Adam sinned would still be alive. The earth would have been overly crowded by now, wouldn’t it?
When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?
If it hadn’t, everything which was alive before Adam sinned would still be alive. The earth would have been overly crowded by now, wouldn’t it?
When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?
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Tcg
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Post #11
brianbbs67 wrote: So, is oral tradition of no avail? Even though it has been proven quite accurate. The truth will out. I can't disregard what many generations have preserved without very good cause.
I can't help but wonder how oral tradition could be proven accurate. Given that you are claiming that it has been, I'd be very interested in your support for this claim you have made.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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ttruscott
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Post #12
polonius wrote:
When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?
So, your question was just a sandbag attempt to discredit believers in a debate forum for not following debate rules of proof?polonius wrote:
RESPONSE:
Really? What supporting evidence do you have for your assertion? In fact, what evidence do you have that Adam ever existed and the first man was a rational being?
Is it because you read it in the Old Testament. When was it written and by whom?
Borrrrrrrring...
The bible is considered a resource for truth in this forum I believe...
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
What about that talking serpent?
Post #13ttruscott wrote:polonius wrote:
When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?polonius wrote:
RESPONSE:
Really? What supporting evidence do you have for your assertion? In fact, what evidence do you have that Adam ever existed and the first man was a rational being?
Is it because you read it in the Old Testament. When was it written and by whom?RESPONSE:So, your question was just a sandbag attempt to discredit believers in a debate forum for not following debate rules of proof?
Really? What "rules" of proof are you using exactly? Like "everything in the Bible is true"///
RESPONSE: "Resource for truth"??? Do you really believe then that the Adam and Eve story is historically true? What about that talking serpent ?Borrrrrrrring...
The bible is considered a resource for truth in this forum I believe...
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ttruscott
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Re: What about that talking serpent?
Post #14Whether it is an allegory or an actual event on earth is immaterial to me, the teachings of this story are very real. The talking serpent is a person like you or I who has chosen to be satanic if not actually Satan himself. Rev 12:7 Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.…polonius wrote: "Resource for truth"??? Do you really believe then that the Adam and Eve story is historically true? What about that talking serpent ?
This person or someone from his cohort is who visited the garden.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
Exploring biblical fiction
Post #15polonius wrote:
"Resource for truth"??? Do you really believe then that the Adam and Eve story is historically true? What about that talking serpent ?
ttruscott posted:
"Resource for truth"??? Do you really believe then that the Adam and Eve story is historically true? What about that talking serpent ?
ttruscott posted:
RESPONSE: So you consider this scripture to be sort of a "once upon a time..." tale? Not factual history? I agree with your conclusion!Whether it is an allegory or an actual event on earth is immaterial to me, the teachings of this story are very real. The talking serpent is a person like you or I who has chosen to be satanic if not actually Satan himself. Rev 12:7 Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.…
This person or someone from his cohort is who visited the garden.
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ttruscott
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Re: Exploring biblical fiction
Post #16By what imaginative leap do you get this from what I wrote? Neither of the options I mentioned conform to a "once upon a time..." tale. Good bye, dust and swine time, I will not abide being reframed into a straw man position.polonius wrote: ttruscott posted:
RESPONSE: So you consider this scripture to be sort of a "once upon a time..." tale? Not factual history? I agree with your conclusion!Whether it is an allegory or an actual event on earth is immaterial to me, the teachings of this story are very real.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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onewithhim
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Re: An accurate dating regarding the writing o the Old Testa
Post #17[Replying to post 9 by polonius]
Interesting, Polonius, but I'll go with my own sources. One observation: The Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes were written by Solomon, and he lived and wrote around 1,000 B.C.
Interesting, Polonius, but I'll go with my own sources. One observation: The Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes were written by Solomon, and he lived and wrote around 1,000 B.C.
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onewithhim
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Post #18
Good point.brianbbs67 wrote: So, is oral tradition of no avail? Even though it has been proven quite accurate. The truth will out. I can't disregard what many generations have preserved without very good cause.
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onewithhim
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Re: What about that talking serpent?
Post #19[Replying to post 13 by polonius]
Yes, the Adam and Eve story is true. Do you call into question Jesus and his ministry? He presented that pair as historically factual. Every detail in the story may not be literal---we don't know. But I believe that the account gives us a good outline as to what happened and why. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? We've got the information that is needed: God made the first human pair. He gave them a beautiful place to live and all the fruitful trees of the Garden except one, and this symbolized their choice as to whether they would continue to listen to Jehovah and have a good relationship with him or not; whether they thought that he had the right to tell them what is right and what is wrong or whether they wanted to make up their own minds as to what life's standards should be. They rebelled against their benevolent Father and brought disaster upon their subsequent offspring. Why get caught up in an argument over whether the snake actually talked or not?
Yes, the Adam and Eve story is true. Do you call into question Jesus and his ministry? He presented that pair as historically factual. Every detail in the story may not be literal---we don't know. But I believe that the account gives us a good outline as to what happened and why. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? We've got the information that is needed: God made the first human pair. He gave them a beautiful place to live and all the fruitful trees of the Garden except one, and this symbolized their choice as to whether they would continue to listen to Jehovah and have a good relationship with him or not; whether they thought that he had the right to tell them what is right and what is wrong or whether they wanted to make up their own minds as to what life's standards should be. They rebelled against their benevolent Father and brought disaster upon their subsequent offspring. Why get caught up in an argument over whether the snake actually talked or not?
