Jehovah's Witnesses: Jesus is the Creator

[Faber]

Job 9:8
Who alone stretches out the heavens
And tramples down the waves of the sea. (NASB)

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,
“I, the LORD, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone (NASB)

God "alone" is the Creator and yet the Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that the Lord Jesus shared in the creation.
Insight on the Scriptures: Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION. (Volume 2, Jesus Christ)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Lord Jesus is God despite the fact that He shared in the creation when the Bible teaches that God "alone" did it?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 69 by polonius.advice]

So are you claiming Luke's report represents a biblical contradiction?

RESPONSE:

Both nativity narratives are fictional as proven by there vastly conflicting stories.

https://ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-bo ... -and-luke/
“It is interesting, and not often noted, that Matthew and Luke – the two Gospels (in fact, the two NT books altogether) that recount the story of the Virgin Birth – do so for different reasons and draw different conclusions from it. …The differences are striking, and in fact – as I’ve pointed out on the blog before – some things cannot be reconciled (if Luke is right that the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after the birth [i.e., when the sacrifice that a birthing mother had to give was made],

“How can Matthew here is quoting the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, which does indeed say that the woman conceiving is a PARTHENOS, a word that by Matthew’s day typically meant “woman who has never had sex.� Sometimes the word simply means “young woman.� And that is definitely what the original Hebrew of Isa. 7:14 says, where the Hebrew word for “young woman� (ALMA) is used, rather than the word for “woman who has never had sex� (BETHULAH).

“If Luke is right that the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after the birth [i.e., when the sacrifice that a birthing mother had to give was made], how can Matthew be right that the family fled to Egypt?).�

“ Later readers would simply combine the two accounts, as if they were saying the same thing, and then would throw in the Gospel of John which is not saying the same thing at all, and end up with the idea that Christ “was incarnate by the Virgin Mary.�

You may have noticed that the stories are not referred to anywhere else in Matthew's or Luke's gospel and not mentioned in Mark (written first) or John (written last).

Why don't you check the Ebionite version, the earliest version of Matthew and see if you find and virgin birth story

[JehovahsWitness]

(if Luke is right that the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after the birth

Where did Luke state the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after Jesus birth. I don't believe that Luke wrote the number 32 in his entire gospel, at least I have never seen the words "thirty two" in any translation I've read.


JW

[polonius]

Where did Luke state the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after Jesus birth. I don't believe that Luke wrote the number 32 in his entire gospel, at least I have never seen the words "thirty two" in any translation I've read.

RESPONSE: Did Luke mention the period of ritual uncleanness following the birth of a male child. Careful Bible readers should know that.

The issue revolves around the 40 days of impurity following the birth of a male child.

Please see:

https://ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-bo ... -and-luke/

https://ehrmanblog.org/forum/

The differences are striking, and in fact – as I’ve pointed out on the blog before – some things cannot be reconciled (if Luke is right that the family returned to Nazareth 32 days after the birth [i.e., when the sacrifice that a birthing mother had to give was made], how can Matthew be right that the family fled to Egypt?).


Perhaps you might want to contact Bart Ehrman’s Blog and askhttps://ehrmanblog.org/forum/

And there is this.

https://carm.org/mary-unclean-offered-sacrifice-for-sin

“According to the Old Testament, it was only the mother who needed purifying after a birth because of the issue of blood. She was ritually unclean. If she had a male child, the days of her period of uncleanness was seven days, then the child was circumcised, then she remained unclean for 33 days (v. 4)--for a total of 40 days. “

There seems to be some variance in how the counting was done. The male child was circumstance on the 7th or 8 day and a mother’s purification then took 32 or 33 days for a total of 40 days

https://carm.org/mary-unclean-offered-sacrifice-for-sin

“According to the Old Testament, it was only the mother who needed purifying after a birth because of the issue of blood. She was ritually unclean. If she had a male child, the days of her period of uncleanness was seven days, then the child was circumcised, then she remained unclean for 33 days (v. 4)--for a total of 40 days. “

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 73 by polonius.advice]

So are the words they returned to Galilee 32 days later a direct quote from Luke? If so may I have the reference?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 73 by polonius.advice]

So are the words they returned to Galilee 32 days later a direct quote from Luke? If so may I have the reference?

RESPONSE: No. Evidently Luke must have assumed most readers could add 8 and 32.

Once again, if you have concerns check with the theologian I cited at his website. I merely quoted his writing.

But you seemed to have overlooked the major issue. Matthew had the Holy Family going to Egypt while Luke had them return to Nazareth. No Slaughter of the Innocent, no fulfillment of "He shall call his son out of Egypt. Those are the major differences.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 73 by polonius.advice]

So are the words they returned to Galilee 32 days later a direct quote from Luke? If so may I have the reference?

RESPONSE: No. {snip}

Okay well thanks for being so honest about that.

Regards,

JW

[Tell the Truth]

[Replying to post 1 by Faber]

Hello guys, It is easy to know if Jesus is God. Please do a simple test. According to the Bible which is the inspired word of God (right) The Bible simply says that Jesus is the word of God. i AM SURE YOU HAVE READ JOHN.

I am not sure if you are willing to challenge that. However some would challenge if water is wet but not you guys (right)

SO HERE IS THE TEST THAT YOU CAN DO AT YOUR LEISURE.

Pretend for just a second that you are God and say out loud.

LET THERE BE LIGHT AND SEE IF YOU CAN SEPARATE THE WORD FROM THE SOURCE.

If you are honest you will conclude that you cannot.
Christ is the word of God and he will not return void.

Example when Christ was on earth. He never did anything on his own. He simple did everything his father said to do.

Got it yet! He is the WORD OF GOD.

You guys have a super day!!

[myth-one.com]

Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Lord Jesus is God despite the fact that He shared in the creation when the Bible teaches that God "alone" did it?

I can't speak for the Jehovah's Witnesses, but the Word created everything in the beginning:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus was the Word made flesh:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus did not exist until He was born about 2019 years ago.

So Jesus had no hand in the creation.

The Word and Jesus are not the same beings. The Word is a spiritual bodied being and Jesus was a human.

[Atlastitsdone]

Job 9:8
Who alone stretches out the heavens
And tramples down the waves of the sea. (NASB)

Isaiah 44:24
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,
“I, the LORD, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone (NASB)

God "alone" is the Creator and yet the Jehovah's Witnesses affirm that the Lord Jesus shared in the creation.
Insight on the Scriptures: Not a co-Creator. The Son’s share in the creative works, however, did not make him a co-Creator with his Father. The power for creation came from God through his holy spirit, or active force. (Ge 1:2; Ps 33:6) And since Jehovah is the Source of all life, all animate creation, visible and invisible, owes its life to him. (Ps 36:9) Rather than a co-Creator, then, the Son was the agent or instrumentality through whom Jehovah, the Creator, worked. Jesus himself credited God with the creation, as do all the Scriptures.—Mt 19:4-6; see CREATION. (Volume 2, Jesus Christ)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses deny the Lord Jesus is God despite the fact that He shared in the creation when the Bible teaches that God "alone" did it?

It just mean God the Father created the world with power (holy spirit).
Jesus was NOT involved. Holy Spirit in this passage is referenced as power. (Not the actual person Holy spirit Jesus prophecised will come after his death)