The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Christ?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

John Human
Scholar
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Been thanked: 6 times

The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Christ?

Post #1

Post by John Human »

According to the following purported first-hand witness account, Jesus Christ, after being crucified, went into a deep, death-like trance and was revived.

Question for debate: How believable is the following account?

"Ancient Demon," according to its own account at http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/ , is the sole remaining demon of the ancient Hebrew royal demons, a group that continued in their duty to protect members of the House of David after the kingdoms of Israel and Judea ceased to exist. (As Ancient Demon relates, all but two of the royal demons perished at the time of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.)

Ancient Demon, by its account, acted as a protector at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. It gives a lengthy description of what happened when Jesus was on the cross (see the link above), and then relates the following:
Ancient Demon will now describe what happened after Jesus put himself into a deep trance, as if he were dead. The Roman soldiers talked about piercing Jesus in the side, as is described in the Bible. However, the Romans decided not to do that, because it would have made a mess and they were charged with disposing of the body. The Romans then decided to make a bet about how quickly the other two freedom fighters would last. If they lasted longer than five hours, the man who bet that they would last shorter would have to break their legs, so they would suffocate. However, if they lasted shorter than five hours, the man would get their belongings, which were in a small pile to the side of the crucifixion. The man who bet that they would last less than five hours lost his bet, and he broke their legs, and they suffocated. Jesus had been on the cross, apparently dead, all this time.

After this, the three crosses were taken down and the three bodies were removed by pulling the spikes out roughly. One of the freedom fighters’ hands was almost torn off, and Ancient Demon was afraid that something similar would happen to Jesus. However, Ancient Demon decided to affect the soldier who was responsible for taking the spikes out of Jesus’s body. This soldier therefore decided to make a gesture of being respectful in order to appease the crowd of followers. The soldier took the spikes out of Jesus carefully and therefore there was little or no further damage to Jesus. However, there was continued bleeding, and Ancient Demon knew that Jesus could potentially lose too much blood. So Ancient Demon entered the body of Jesus and made a point of affecting the blood vessels to make them constrict. This had the result of ensuring that Jesus didn’t bleed to death.

After this, Ancient Demon knew that, because Jesus was going to be given a proper burial, there was hope that Jesus would be able to revive himself. Ancient Demon knew that it would be able to assist Jesus, but Ancient Demon was concerned about not having enough energy. For this reason, Ancient Demon, after discovering who was in charge of taking care of the burial, left and returned to the prince. Ancient Demon explained to the prince that Jesus was not dead. The prince wanted to make an effort to help Jesus, but the prince realized that this would be probably suicidal. The prince therefore was able to give energy to Ancient Demon by focusing, much as John does, and giving Ancient Demon a full supply of energy so that Ancient Demon could go to the grave and help revive Jesus. When Ancient Demon returned to the grave, Ancient Demon discovered that Jesus had not been buried but rather transferred to a tomb that was empty. Ancient Demon thus had a much easier time taking care of Jesus. Ancient Demon entered Jesus’s body and helped heal Jesus’s wounds, by affecting the energy field around the lacerations. This had the effect of making sure that Jesus wouldn’t start bleeding when he started moving.

Ancient Demon then began to try to revive Jesus. Ancient Demon knew that it had limited time and energy, and it knew that there was little time for Jesus before he died, so Ancient Demon decided to make a gamble that one surge of energy would be sufficient to revive Jesus. Ancient Demon knew that, because Jesus was unable to revive himself, he would simply die without anyone knowing that he was still alive. So Ancient Demon did what it had to do, risking running out of energy, because Ancient Demon knew that Jesus’s survival was important to the future of the Hebrews. Ancient Demon knew that, if Jesus survived but was hidden, there would be considerable support for his brother James, and this would preserve the royal family. However, if Jesus simply died, the other members of the royal family would be exterminated eventually, as happened with the family of Jude.

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #2

Post by Zzyzx »

.
John Human wrote: How believable is the following account?
On a scale of one to ten with one being least believable, minus ten -- about equal to talking donkeys, worldwide flood 'to tops of mountains', reanimation of long-dead humans, demons cast into swine, etc.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11506
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 330 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

John Human wrote: ...

"Ancient Demon," according to its own account at http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/ ...if Jesus survived but was hidden, there would be considerable support for his brother James, and this would preserve the royal family. However, if Jesus simply died, the other members of the royal family would be exterminated eventually, as happened with the family of Jude.[/size]
For me one problem is that “royal family�. What is the “royal family�, where it is?

John Human
Scholar
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #4

Post by John Human »

1213 wrote:
John Human wrote: ...

"Ancient Demon," according to its own account at http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/ ...if Jesus survived but was hidden, there would be considerable support for his brother James, and this would preserve the royal family. However, if Jesus simply died, the other members of the royal family would be exterminated eventually, as happened with the family of Jude.[/size]
For me one problem is that “royal family�. What is the “royal family�, where it is?
Um, I suppose we could say that the answer to your question was nailed to the top of the cross: see https://restlesspilgrim.net/blog/2011/09/15/why-inri/

Jesus was descended, through his father Joseph, from a male-line lineage from David that was forbidden (because of the alleged transgression of an ancestor) from ever holding the throne. ;Ancient Demon's understanding is that Jesus's mother was at the end of a male-line descent from David, with no brothers to carry on the lineage. Hence the dynastic marriage between the two branches -- Joseph and Mary.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11506
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 330 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #5

Post by 1213 »

John Human wrote: ...
Jesus was descended, through his father Joseph, from a male-line lineage from David that was forbidden (because of the alleged transgression of an ancestor) from ever holding the throne. ;Ancient Demon's understanding is that Jesus's mother was at the end of a male-line descent from David, with no brothers to carry on the lineage. Hence the dynastic marriage between the two branches -- Joseph and Mary.
That doesn’t sound reasonable. Is there any support for those claims anywhere?

And if we assume the family theory correct, what do you think about that it failed anyway?

John Human
Scholar
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #6

Post by John Human »

1213 wrote:
John Human wrote: ...
Jesus was descended, through his father Joseph, from a male-line lineage from David that was forbidden (because of the alleged transgression of an ancestor) from ever holding the throne. ;Ancient Demon's understanding is that Jesus's mother was at the end of a male-line descent from David, with no brothers to carry on the lineage. Hence the dynastic marriage between the two branches -- Joseph and Mary.
That doesn’t sound reasonable. Is there any support for those claims anywhere?
I'd be pleased to consider why you don't think that it sounds reasonable. The general idea, that the genealogy in Luke's gospel actually follows the line of Mary, is a well-established supposition that has been around for decades if not longer. See, for example, https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/why- ... -different
And if we assume the family theory correct, what do you think about that it failed anyway?

Not sure what you're getting at, could you clarify?

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11506
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 330 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

John Human wrote:
And if we assume the family theory correct, what do you think about that it failed anyway?

Not sure what you're getting at, could you clarify?
In earlier post it was said: “to preserve the royal family�. By what I see, that didn’t happen. So what was the point in that? Or, if the royal family is preserved, how can it be known or seen?

John Human
Scholar
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #8

Post by John Human »

1213 wrote:
John Human wrote:
And if we assume the family theory correct, what do you think about that it failed anyway?

Not sure what you're getting at, could you clarify?
In earlier post it was said: “to preserve the royal family�. By what I see, that didn’t happen. So what was the point in that? Or, if the royal family is preserved, how can it be known or seen?
I think that the very next paragraph of Ancient Demon's story answers your question: http://earthwarning.org/index.php/here-be-demons/
Because there was hidden knowledge of Jesus’s survival, there was a great outcry when Jude’s family was murdered, and this served to protect the other member of the royal family. Jude was devastated by what happened, and did not ever think of remarrying. James knew that he was a candidate for High Priest, and for this reason chose not to marry. Jerushae had his grandson, and it was Ancient Demon’s responsibility to preserve the life of Jerushae’s grandson. However, there was another brother, Thomas, who had not married and who had been thinking of having a family. Within the royal family, there were strict rules about marriage, and Thomas had a limited number of families from which he could choose a potential wife. Thomas eventually made a marriage alliance and had a son, who was unable to find a woman from any of these families who was willing to marry him as Jerusalem moved toward open rebellion, and for that reason this son never married. However, Thomas had a daughter with a woman in Egypt, thinking that he should make an effort to preserve the lineage. This resulted in a family in Egypt with royal Hebrew blood, that became part of the Christian movement in Egypt. However, Ancient Demon does not know if descendants of this family survived. This is all that Ancient Demon will say.
Earlier in Ancient Demon's account, it told the long story of its efforts to preserve the life of the last remaining Hebrew prince, as the invading Romans destroyed Jerusalem and exterminated the Hebrew royal demons and temple demons:
THE DEMON AND THE PRINCE

(Oct. 9, 2016) Ancient Demon is beginning again its story of what happened during the time of the Roman occupation of Jerusalem. Ancient Demon knew that it would be able to escape, because it knew that it was able to participate in a demon gathering that was organized to ensure that the demon hierarchy was able to escape. Aside from the temple demons, the royal demons and the elder demons of Jerusalem needed to find ways to assure that they could escape. The royal demons were forced to separate from the royal family, except for Ancient Demon, because Ancient Demon was the demon chosen to keep company the young prince. Ancient Demon knew that the young prince would not be able to escape, unless it was possible to hide his true nature as a member of the elite in Hebrew society. This required that the young prince learn to act in ways that he had never imagined acting. Ancient Demon decided to ask the prince if he preferred to die honorably, instead of preserving his life and his bloodline. The prince already knew his answer. He had chosen to preserve his bloodline, and this meant that he would have to do things that were under his rank.

He accepted this and decided to learn how to act like the apprentice to a craftsman. The prince knew nothing of being an apprentice, but the prince knew that he wouldn’t have to actually make anything. He would just have to be in the company of his pretended master as they escaped from the city. The prince knew that he would have to separate from Ancient Demon. The prince knew that he wouldn’t be able to work with any demon for an extended time. The prince knew that he was unaccustomed to living in this way, and the prince was worried that the demon who had been assigned to guard him was looking for a way to escape and abandon the prince.

The demon knew that it had the responsibility to stay with the prince at all times. However, the demon knew that it was impossible for the prince to leave the city with the demon in his energy field. For this reason, the prince knew that he would have to separate from the demon in a way that let the energy residue of the demon escape from the prince’s energy field, before being able to attempt an escape. This required that the prince be alone for an extended time. The demon knew that the prince wasn’t able to work as an apprentice, but the demon also knew that the prince should begin to develop the ability to make things, to ensure that this energy was part of the prince’s energy field. This meant that the demon had to get the participation of a craftsman who was willing to be at risk of instant death if the prince was discovered.

The demon knew that the prince wasn’t willing to risk his life with a craftsman, so the demon decided to arrange a new arrangement. The demon wanted the prince to pretend to be the apprentice of a local craftsman as long as the craftsman didn’t know where the prince lived. This was arranged, and the craftsman was carefully watched to ensure that he had no thoughts of betraying the prince. After a while, the demon grew confident in the craftsman, and was able to allow the craftsman and the prince to spend time together while the demon did other things.

The demon knew that it wouldn’t be able to escape from Jerusalem unless it was in the energy field of a human who wouldn’t be questioned as he or she left. This meant that the demon had to find a way to get a human family to allow the demon to leave with them in a way that didn’t attract attention. The demon knew that any family that would be willing to do such a thing would also be at risk of being killed for being extremists who were inclined to resist Roman rule. This meant that the demon had to find a family that was both patriotic and discreet. This was a difficult assignment, but the demon finally found a likely family who understood that the demon needed to escape Jerusalem to be able to accompany the last existing prince of the royal family. This family knew that it risked death if it did what it was being asked to do. The family consisted of a father and mother and three teenage sons. The demon thought that it would best to enter the energy field of the middle son. The demon knew that the sons would be less likely to be targets of inquiry than the father, but the demon also knew that if the father was found to be suspicious, the sons as well would be under suspicion.

This meant that the demon had to decide what to do if suddenly there was a threat of being discovered. The demon knew that if the father was not allowed to leave Jerusalem, the rest of the family would be required to continue without him. This meant that the family would have no way of protecting itself. This also meant that the family would be unable to work with any families that might be inclined to assist it, as long as the demon was with the family.

This meant that the demon would have to consider leaving the family immediately if the father was prevented from leaving. However, the demon believed that there was another way to ensure that the family was safe if the demon was discovered. The demon knew that, if the family wasn’t able to find a way to leave safely, the demon could continue by itself for a limited time, entering the energy field of a human that it encountered. This risked being separated from the prince forever, because the demon knew that nobody knew how to find the prince. The demon believed that the prince would be able to indicate that he was alive and safe, but the demon wouldn’t be able to risk reuniting with the prince, because if the demon erred in jumping from its location to that of the prince, there would be no energy for the demon to try again.

The demon was willing to attempt this escape, deciding that the demon wouldn’t behave like a royal demon. The demon would approach a family with the request that it be taken to a relative of its former human companion. The family was willing to do this, for the reason that family knew that the prince was going to escape in the same group as the family. This meant that the prince and the demon would be in the same general vicinity. The demon knew that it wouldn’t be able to work with the prince as long as there was a threat of Roman scrutiny. This meant that the demon would have to reveal itself to the family at some point, with the understanding that the family would benefit from helping the demon to reunite with the prince at a future time.

The family was uncertain about helping this demon, because the family suspected that the demon was more important that it acted. For this reason, the family was afraid that the demon would attract attention to the family in a way that made it impossible for the family to successfully leave. The demon knew that the family would be successful if it was simply calm, but the demon was unsure if the family was able to preserve a façade of simple desperate poverty. The family was hoping to relocate to another city far from Jerusalem. The prince was with a family that wasn’t going that far. The demon was under the impression that the family would agree to pause in the destination city of the craftsman with the prince while the demon arranged for the prince to attach himself to the family. This required the family to spend money that it didn’t have. So the demon knew that it would have to break its vow to never do harm, and actively support the family in a way that ensured its survival at the expense of other desperate humans. The demon was unable to do this well. However, the demon was able to obtain sufficient resource for the family to survive long enough for the prince to join the family as one of the sons.

This meant that the family now had an additional mouth to feed, and the prince was not a capable worker. The prince knew that he couldn’t have the demon in his energy field, but he was constantly near the middle son. This meant that the middle son became attached to the prince and was willing to help him learn to act like a normal boy. The prince gradually learned to do common tasks and the prince gradually became less conspicuous. This allowed the demon to believe that there was a good chance that the demon would be safe traveling in the energy field of the prince. However, the demon knew that there were still checkpoints where demons would be looking for escaping Hebrew demons. This meant that the demon needed to alert the family before any such checkpoint was reached.

The demon knew that, if such a checkpoint was reached without awareness, the result would be that the boy with the demon would be seized and interrogated. This would result in the entire family being exterminated, including the prince. For this reason, the demon hoped to find another family with which the demon could travel. However, this proved to be impossible, because there were no other families who were traveling in the same direction.

As a result, the demon and the family set out without sufficient protection, risking discovery if the demon was forced to defend the family against attacking bandits. The demon wasn’t able to fully protect the family. One of the sons was killed by a bandit, because the demon was too slow in disabling the bandits as they attacked. There were seven bandits and the demon was able to disable six of them as the seventh charged into the midst of the family and killed the eldest son. This resulted in the father being extremely bitter toward the demon, because the demon had assured the father that his sons would safe from bandits with the demon. The demon knew that the father was no longer reliable, and so the demon chose to find a way to escape with the prince into another family.

The demon was uncertain about whether it should continue with the family to a city, or whether the demon should go with the prince alone in the country. The demon finally decided to continue with the family for the time being, reasoning that the family would safer in the demon’s company. The demon knew that the family wouldn’t be able to survive if bandits attacked and the demon was gone. So the demon risked the wrathful attitude of the father for the sake of preserving the family long enough to get it to a city.

The demon was aware that the father knew the identity of the prince, and the demon was also aware that the father knew that the demon was not what the demon pretended to be. The father eventually realized that the demon was the companion of the prince. This meant that the attitude of the father changed. The father realized that the demon was risking its own existence to protect the prince, and that the demon could have easily left the prince and found safety back in the city. The family knew that it wasn’t able to support the prince, because it had lost the income from the work of the eldest son. This meant that the prince would have to find a new family. This also meant that the prince would have to be aware that the demon was near the prince. The demon had deliberately hidden itself from the awareness of the prince by staying away from the middle son when the middle son was near the prince. The middle son never talked of the demon, because it was understood among people at that time that they should never admit having a demon companion. This helped the demon preserve the secret of its proximity to the prince. However, the prince often wondered what had happened to the demon, and the demon risked one night talking to the prince from a distance. The demon said that it was passing by this area, which was true, because the family was also passing by this area. This meant that the demon was able to assure the prince that it still existed and was aware of the prince’s existence, even though the demon wasn’t able to do anything to communicate with the prince.

The demon knew that the prince wasn’t aware that the middle son was the human companion of the demon. However, the prince knew that the middle son had grown attached to the prince and wanted to be the prince’s friend. The prince was afraid that it was improper to be a friend of the son of a poor family, and the prince was reserved around the middle son. This meant that the middle son was always trying to get the prince to make a gesture of approval or friendship. However, the middle son wasn’t overly demanding in this regard. This meant that the two of them were tolerable companions. However, the prince was getting tired of maintaining this charade, and wanted to be able to travel as a member of a better family. This meant that the prince was inclined to be unhappy with the presence of the middle son when the prince was feeling irritable about his humble situation. The prince wasn’t able to be alone with his thoughts, because the mother of the family was constantly watching him to make sure that he was all right. This meant that the prince had the additional burden of bearing the supportive intrusion of the mother’s attention.

The prince wanted to be away from this family, but he was trapped with them and realized that he owed his life to them. He knew that if they had stayed in the city, the eldest son wouldn’t have died. He also knew that they would have been inclined to stay in the city if it hadn’t been for the prince being with them. This meant that the prince had an obligation to the family, and the prince was able to sustain the feeling that he needed to be cooperative and respectful.

However, the prince also wanted the family to be properly respectful to him. But this meant breaking out of the role that he was playing, and the prince knew that this would have been very dangerous. The prince was unable to work well, and the family bore his clumsiness with patience. But the family was aware that its resources were dwindling. The family decided to find a farm to stay with. This meant that they would have enough food for the time being, but wouldn’t have any money after they left.



(Oct. 10, 2016 — 7:00 p.m.) The family knew that, in the long run, there would be an opportunity for the prince to leave the family and continue on his journey. But the family also knew that it might never be able to receive any reward for protecting the prince. So the family decided to work with the farmer in a way that ensured that the prince would be taken care of. The farmer knew that the prince was not a good worker, but the farmer was satisfied with the work of the others. The farmer knew that the prince wasn’t a member of the family, because he didn’t look like the others. The farmer didn’t suspect that the prince was a member of the royal family of Judea, but the farmer discovered that the family was Hebrew. The farmer knew that this family was willing to work hard, so the farmer didn’t want to say anything. The farmer wanted to make sure that the family stayed with the farmer, but the farmer suspected that the family wanted to move away. So the farmer withheld any payment except for food, until the family was able to work for a year. This meant that the family was long overdue, because word had been sent to friends in the faraway city that the family was on its way.

After a year, the farmer gave the family enough money to be able to continue on their journey, but not enough to reach their destination. The family knew that it would have to find work with another farmer before they arrived at the city. They knew that they would be fortunate if no bandits attacked them. At this point, the family was confident that they would be able to work their way along the route, without having any serious problems. However, the father still grieved for his eldest son. This meant that the demon was uncomfortable. The demon wasn’t in a hurry to get to the faraway city, because it didn’t have any reason to believe that people there would be able to help a prince of a nation that had been destroyed. This meant that the demon knew that the prince’s education in common pursuits was useful. The demon hoped that there would be some way for the prince to establish himself as a locally prominent man. But the demon didn’t expect the prince to become anyone significant. The prince was a good-natured young man and didn’t have any great ambition. So the demon kept in mind the hope that the prince would find a way to establish a bloodline that would continue the line of the ancient kings of Israel.

The prince was unable to be acknowledged, but the prince never forgot his royal birth. He knew that he was from the bloodline of kings, and assumed a regal attitude without thinking about it. This was dangerous, and the demon hoped that the prince wouldn’t be discovered because of his unconscious habit. The prince knew that he should hide his way of acting, but he also knew that he had a privilege in regard to his interaction with the middle son. The demon worried that the middle son would eventually grow resentful. However, the middle son was attached to the prince, and was content to be his inferior. The middle son had been the inferior of his elder brother, so he was accustomed to playing this role. However, the prince, was not familiar with having a younger brother, and didn’t know how to act in a way that endeared himself. For this reason, the middle son was slowly growing distant from the prince. This meant that the younger son wasn’t as far from the demon most of the time. For this reason, the demon was able to monitor the interaction of the family.

[This part written on 10/14] Unbeknownst to the demon, the father of the family had decided to prevent the prince from continuing with the family. The father had to find a way to leave behind his grief at the loss of his eldest son. When the demon eventually discovered this, it knew that it would have to leave the family too. However, the demon wanted the father to agree that the demon had done many things for the benefit of the family. The father was reluctant to admit this. The father wanted the demon to leave, but the father was also worried about meeting bandits without the demon’s assistance. The father knew that his thinking was irrational, but the father was unable to control his emotions. The demon decided to wait and leave the family as soon as the family was safe.

The demon wanted the prince to be aware of the demon’s presence, but the prince had to be kept ignorant, so he would continue learning how to be a common person. The demon knew that this was the likely future of the prince, to be married to a common person without aristocratic connections. The demon understood that its purpose was to ensure that the bloodline of the prince survived. The demon also understood that the prince wasn’t able to have any children until he left his religion. This meant that the demon would have to counsel the prince as the prince went through the process of questioning and discarding learned beliefs. The demon knew that the prince wouldn’t have any problem accepting a new religion when the prince was ready to marry. However, the prince would be better able to work through this process if he had already begun thinking about it. This meant that the prince would have to be exposed to questions about his current existence in relation to his former culture. The demon wanted to begin this process as soon as possible.

The demon wanted to know what the prince had been thinking about on his own for the past year. This meant that the demon wanted to have access to the prince while the prince was talking to the middle son. The demon had avoided this up to now, but the demon decided that the middle son could potentially give the prince ideas that would help the prince’s own understanding of his situation. The demon suggested to the middle son that he tell the prince that the religion of the Hebrews was dead. The prince responded by saying that there was still a demon alive who would be able to continue the Hebrew religion. The prince knew that he was speaking out of wishful hope, and didn’t really believe that the demon was still alive. The demon was under the impression that the prince would believe that he wouldn’t have to work anymore if the demon revealed itself to the prince. For that reason, the demon continued avoiding the middle son when the middle son was near the prince.

The demon knew that, eventually, the middle son would be an adult and ready to marry. The demon knew that, at that time, the demon would have to be away from the middle son. This meant that the demon would have to find a way to return to the prince. The demon wanted the prince and the family to get as close as possible to the faraway city before the demon left the family and returned to the prince. However, the demon knew that the prince wouldn’t want to leave the family, because he simply had no one else. The prince already depended on the mother of the family for emotional support. The prince knew that the father hated the prince because his eldest son had been killed. That would have never happened if the family hadn’t agreed to accept the prince and travel toward the faraway city.

The demon knew that the prince wouldn’t have any problem with the family, because the father was a good man who understood how to constrain his emotional reactions. However, the father didn’t know that the prince was aware of how the father felt. The prince had been trained in how to detect the feelings of others, as part of his royal education. This meant that the prince was aware of the father’s negative emotions toward the prince. The demon wanted the prince to have the opportunity to leave the family, but the demon knew that it was not going to be possible until there was another situation that demanded a difficult choice.

[This part written before 10/14] After they arrived in the city, the family wasn’t able to find any friendly helpers. They had limited money, and they knew that they needed to send a message to the faraway city. The family wasn’t able to find a messenger who was willing to take a message for the pay that they could offer. So the family didn’t send a message. The family instead decided to find work and continue to work their way to the faraway city. The family knew that it wasn’t under any suspicion, but the family also knew that any discrepancy in their story would arouse suspicion. So the family decided to work in a workplace that had various different families from different areas, so they wouldn’t be conspicuous. The family knew that, if they weren’t able to stay undercover, they would be probed and interrogated. The family knew that they needed to maintain absolute silence about their origin. This meant that they weren’t inclined to be sociable with other families. This aroused suspicion. The family, despite their intentions, had caused what they had tried to avoid. This meant that the family needed to leave quickly, without getting paid. This meant that they had very little money. Afterwards, they realized that they could have resisted the questions because they weren’t under suspicion for any crime. But they didn’t want to have any problems with anyone. So the family continued toward the faraway city, without the hope of getting very far. The family knew that they would have to look for another farm.

They wanted to find another farm that was similar to the one where they had stayed for a year. But the farmers in this area had a different method of growing food, and the family wasn’t experienced in this method. So the family wasn’t able to find work. However, the family knew that they wouldn’t starve, because people were inclined to be friendly and helpful. The family continued traveling and looking for work. Finally, a farmer decided to work with the family even though they didn’t know the method of farming. This farmer agreed to pay the family half of what they would otherwise receive for one year’s work. The family worked hard and learned how to farm in the way that the farmer instructed. The farmer knew that the family wouldn’t have enough money to get to their destination, but the farmer also knew that the family wouldn’t starve, because now the family knew how to work in a way that was useful to the local farmers.

The family continued toward the faraway city. By now, the friends of the family didn’t expect them to arrive. There was no knowledge of what had happened to the prince. There were no people who expected the prince to be alive, and no people who expected any Hebrew prince to have survived. At this point, the demon was the only one who knew the identity of the prince. However, the demon knew that there was another prince who was still alive. At least, the prince had been alive when the demon left Jerusalem. The demon knew that the other prince intended to go to a city that wasn’t far from the destination of the family. This meant that the family could be persuaded to go to this city. However, the family was reluctant to do this, because they knew that the demon had led them into a difficult life, and they had no confidence in the ability of the demon. For this reason, the family decided to work their way toward their original destination, without considering that the demon would be able to leave with the prince.

The family didn’t expect the prince to be able to survive on his own. However, the prince had been gradually learning to become proficient at doing farm work. The demon suspected that the prince would be able to work on his own, finding work more easily than the family could together. The demon knew that, if it left with the prince, the family would be suspicious of the demon’s motives. The family would assume that the demon had intended to trick them. However, the demon didn’t have to do this, because the family suddenly was able to find work that included the prince, without needing to explain how this outsider (the prince, with a different appearance) had come to be with them.

The family was employed in a farm were there were many workers from different areas. For this reason, the workers were inclined to accept groups that came together without expecting them to be families. This meant that the family and the prince were able to work together without having to explain how they came to be together.

However, the family was uncertain of whether they should continue toward the city or simply stay on the farm, where there was plenty of work and it was safe. The family knew that, by this time, nobody would be expecting them, and their arrival would be a burden on their friends. For this reason, the family decided to stay on the farm, and the demon decided to take its chances with the prince. This meant that the demon entered the prince once again. The prince was startled and astonished to find out that the demon had been with the prince all along. The prince knew that the demon hadn’t abandoned him. The demon was overjoyed to be reunited with the prince. The demon knew that it had a responsibility and the demon also knew that the prince wouldn’t be able to survive on his own. The prince simply didn’t know enough of farm work. However, the demon suspected that the prince would be able to do enough work if the demon was able to help him. The demon had learned much about farm work by being in the company of the middle son. So the demon guided the prince as he found employment on a farm. The prince waited until he was paid, and then left the farm. The prince was able to move more quickly without being part of a family, and the prince was able to find friendly people who helped him, even when they didn’t have work for him.

In this manner, the prince worked his way to the faraway city where the other prince had planned to go. The demon didn’t know who in the city would be able to help the prince, but the demon figured that the Hebrew community would be the logical place to go. So the demon went to the Hebrew community without the prince and investigated. The demon knew that the prince wouldn’t be able to announce his identity without arousing suspicion. For this reason, the demon decided to look for demons who were associated with the Hebrew community. The demon found that this community had an old demon who was associated with the community. This meant that the community was well-established. Because of this, the demon expected the old demon to welcome the demon. However, the old demon assumed that the presence of the prince would be dangerous, and therefore the old demon discouraged the demon from bringing the prince into the community.

The old demon suggested that the demon decide where to bring the prince without any knowledge of Hebrew. [A place where Hebrews were unknown] The prince wasn’t encouraged to go out alone without any hope being with his people. However, the prince realized that there wouldn’t be any chance of becoming a prince again, so the prince knew that he wouldn’t have any way to reclaim his social position. The prince had been accustomed to working, so he would be able to disguise his noble birth. However, the prince wouldn’t be able to disguise his Hebrew origin, so it was important that the prince choose a location where Hebrews were unknown.

[continued 10/14] The prince wasn’t inclined to make a choice, so the demon simply had to move with the prince through the countryside, hoping to find a place where the demon felt that the prince’s ethnic background would be unrecognized. The demon knew that Hebrews had migrated throughout the Roman Empire, so there would not be a likely safe place for the prince within the empire. The demon knew that the prince wouldn’t have any problem learning a new language, but there might be a problem getting to a place where a new language was spoken. For this reason, the demon wanted the prince to think of a place, so the prince would have a role in the decision of what language to learn.

The demon gave up trying to get the prince to choose a place, and eventually chose to search for a location without knowing who lived there. The demon knew that taking a ship would be the easiest way for the prince to get to the edge of the Roman Empire. The demon wanted the prince to be able to work on a ship, but the demon knew that this was unlikely. So the prince had to save money to take a journey on a ship. The demon expected that there wouldn’t be any problem with the prince’s decision to work until it was time to go on the ship. This would enable the prince to have a little bit of money when he left the ship. The demon knew that, after leaving the ship, the prince would have to settle in the area where he found himself. The demon knew that the prince wouldn’t have any problem finding a wife, because he was handsome and well-mannered. The demon expected that the prince would have sons, to continue the bloodline. The demon knew that it was responsible to ensure that the prince had sons who survived. For this reason, the demon knew that it wouldn’t be able to leave the prince for many years. The demon expected that the prince would be a worthy member of his new community, and the demon expected that the prince wouldn’t mind living such a life.

But the prince hadn’t given up his dream of being recognized as a member of a royal family. The prince knew that he was owed deference from common men, and the prince had an attitude that made others angry if he showed it. This meant that the prince always had to be careful about expressing his true feelings. However, the prince understood that, in order to properly express this attitude, he had to achieve a station in his community that enabled him to expect respect from everyone else. This was the prince’s new ambition, to find a community where he could rise into a position of respect.

The demon gave the prince some advice: Do not let anyone know of your background, because you will be sought out and killed. The demon knew that the prince wanted to tell someone about who he really was. But the demon knew that doing so would be fatal. So the prince was unable to say where he was really from. This bothered the prince every time someone asked him about his origin. But eventually the prince was able to simply repeat the same story that he had repeated many times before, without thinking about it. And this led the demon to think that it was now time for the prince to take a journey across the sea.

[Oct. 21, 2016 — 3:10 pm] The voyage across the sea was not uneventful. The prince was unable to be around common people whose behavior was inappropriate. He was unable to respond in a manner that was inclined to divert suspicion. For this reason, the prince was looked on with suspicion by the fellow travelers and the crew of the ship. The prince had no way of hiding behind the company of a friend. He had to simply act as if he was the son of a merchant who was called overseas on behalf of his father. The prince was able to do this well enough, and the prince knew that he wouldn’t be in any danger as soon as he finished the voyage.

After arriving overseas, the prince wasn’t able to perform as well as he did on the ship. The prince understood that he wasn’t able to present himself as the son of a merchant. He knew that he would have to develop a new identity and would have to present a new story depending on what situation he found himself in. The prince knew that he wasn’t able to make up a story immediately, so the demon had the outline of a story ready. The demon told the prince to pretend that he was a son of a merchant who had been blown off course and stranded. This would enable the demon to think of details as soon as it was necessary for the demon to do so. The prince didn’t want to use this story, because it implied that the prince would be seeking a way to return overseas. However, the demon assumed that the prince would be able to pretend to change his mind. The demon knew that the prince wasn’t at risk of being harmed as long as his identity remained secret. But the demon knew that the prince wasn’t able to protect his identity if he was questioned closely. For this reason, the demon cautioned the prince to be very careful not to draw attention to himself.

The demon wasn’t in any hurry to find a way for the prince to establish himself. The demon thought that the prince would be able to work on a farm. However, the method of farming in this area was different from what the prince was used to. For that reason, the prince was unable to find a farming job when he first arrived. However, the prince knew that eventually he would be able to find a job as long as he didn’t mind receiving little pay. This is what happened, and the prince began to learn the way of farming. As the prince learned, he began to develop the ability to speak the local language. This had the effect of helping the prince to meet local families. And the prince was young, single and handsome, and attractive daughters of local farmers began to think that maybe he would be a suitable husband. However, the prince hoped to find a wife in the town, with the ability to keep in touch with the outside world. The prince had a wandering mind, and was unwilling to settle down as an isolated farmer. He wanted to be able to hear news about his people and his former country. The prince knew that, if he did this, he would eventually betray his identity. So he reluctantly began to think of marrying a local woman and becoming a part of a local family.

The prince eventually chose a wife and married a farmer’s daughter. The prince knew that he wouldn’t ever rise above the status of a simple farmer. He knew that he wouldn’t be able to work in the town or have a role in the government. He would simply be inconspicuous. This assured that he would live and have sons. The prince knew that this was his essential task in life. He knew that it was his duty to preserve the bloodline of the House of David. This meant that the prince had to simply give up any pretention of being someone important. The demon suspected that the sons and grandsons of the prince would rise up to positions of importance. But the demon suspected that the demon would have to leave the family, because the demon knew that it would be under suspicion as soon as anyone realized that the demon was in the energy field of the prince.

For that reason, the demon knew that it would have to leave the prince and hope that the prince was going to be all right. However, the demon never found out what happened to the prince. The demon never knew if the prince had sons and grandsons. The demon was never able to return to this area, and the demon never had the ability to ask others about the status of the family into which the prince had married. For this reason, the demon has never been able to verify if the prince’s bloodline continues. This is something that the demon has wondered over the centuries.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11506
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 330 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: The revival (not "resurrection") of Jesus Chri

Post #9

Post by 1213 »

John Human wrote: I think that the very next paragraph of Ancient Demon's story answers your question: ...
Ok, thanks, I think the story is not believable at all. I have no reason to believe it.

John Human
Scholar
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:49 pm
Location: Seattle
Been thanked: 6 times

Believe it or not?

Post #10

Post by John Human »

1213 wrote:
John Human wrote: I think that the very next paragraph of Ancient Demon's story answers your question: ...
Ok, thanks, I think the story is not believable at all. I have no reason to believe it.
I have to wonder why not. Why "no reason"?

Believing or not believing involves choice. Sometimes we choose to accept, without question, ways of thinking that we have been taught in school or church. Of course, beliefs that were embraced when young, because of fear of punishment or hope of reward or simply to please a beloved authority figure, can become internalized as "reasons" for rejecting suppositions that don't fit into the box of a pre-existing world view.
"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar

"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI

"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0

"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]

Post Reply