Who was Paul's God?

[Elijah John]

Who was Paul's God?

Was it "Christ"? Or was it Jehovah?

I use the rendering "Jehovah" for the Tetragrammaton because I am especially interested in seeing how Jehovah's Witnesses handle the primacy Paul places on "Christ" above all.

Consider:

For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.

and:

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

.

etc, etc.

[PinSeeker]

Who was Paul's God? Was it "Christ"? Or was it Jehovah?

Yes.

Even today, Jews who desire not to misuse the Lord’s covenant name Yahweh say “Adonai� when they see the four letters of His name (YHWH) in the Hebrew Bible — the Old Testament. Adonai is used this way since it is actually another name for God in Scripture. In fact, taking into account its translation in the Greek New Testament as kurios, Adonai is the most common name for our Creator (God) in the Bible. We can see the equation of the two in Psalm 8 (verse 1): "O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth..."

The verse really reads, "O Yahweh, our Adonai..."

Yahweh as God’s name primarily reflects His covenant faithfulness, and Adonai speaks mainly of His sovereignty. In Scripture, the concepts of authority and omnipotence are inherent to the idea of divine sovereignty.

The title lord when used in reference to Jesus comes from the Greek word kurios, a translation of Adonai. Its frequent usage in the New Testament (Acts 7:59; Rom. 5:1; Heb. 13:20) is one of many indications of Jesus’ power, authority, and yes, His deity.

[2timothy316]

Why not preach Jehovah?

He did preach and teach about Jehovah.

“Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.�—Romans 10:13.
Paul was quoting Joel 2:32 and Zephaniah 3:9 where the divine name YHWH was used not Jesus' or Lord'. As you know the NWT puts the divine name in the Greek Scriptures where the writer is clearly quoting from the Hebrew scriptures as it should be. It's the bias of most translations to not do this so that they can have wiggle room for the trinity to put a veil on God's name and put doubt in Paul which then puts doubt in God's Word the Bible.

[tam]

Peace to you!

Peace to you,


Paul is very clear that his God is the Father (JAH) and his Lord is Christ.


Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, [Jesus] Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.




Peace again!

Granted, but that is lip service.

How is it that you know enough to make that determination?

You did not know Paul. You have a handful of letters from him, and in those letters Paul always gives glory to God.

How else do you explain the two verses I cited where "Christ" is Paul's everything? Shouldn't that role be reserved for God alone?

Prayer is reserved for God alone.


To the rest, Paul is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing: bearing witness to Christ (Acts 1:8).

We bear witness to Christ - we are His witnesses. He is Himself the true and faithful witness of God.

Consider how blasphemous it would sound were someone to say "for me to live is Moses, and to die is gain".

I think people can be too easy with their use of the word 'blasphemous'. And Moses is not the Christ.


Paul lived because of Christ (whom the Father sent that we may live); as long as Paul lived, he lived to do the work that Christ gave him to do, to bear witness to Christ - and all of this is to the glory of the Father, who sent us His Son to begin with and told us to listen to Him. (This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.)



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

Who was Paul's God?

Was it "Christ"? Or was it Jehovah?

I use the rendering "Jehovah" for the Tetragrammaton because I am especially interested in seeing how Jehovah's Witnesses handle the primacy Paul places on "Christ" above all.

Consider:

For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.

and:

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

.

etc, etc.

Paul placed primacy on God/ the Father/ Jehovah. It can be seen throughout his letters to the congregations. In the New Testament wherever Paul writes "God," he is referring to the Father, Jehovah. I would spend many hours adding up the times he refers to "God" in his letters.

He alludes to Christ often because Christ is the means through which the Father has maintained He will bless the congregations AND, eventually, the nations as well. Christ is Jehovah's MEANS of reconciliation, between Himself and the world of mankind.

[onewithhim]

"For all things I have the strength through the one who gives me power." Comes from Philippians 4:13. Interestingly the word 'Christ' is not in the manuscript.

Oops. Looks like I misquoted Paul here. The peril of quoting from memory.

But still, there's the "for me to live is Christ and to die is gain" verse. Seems "Christ" was Paul's everything, in effect, his God.

If not "Christ" then "The-Father-as-known-though-Christ" (does Paul ever mention the Father by name?)

If "Christ was not Paul's "self-contained" god, then Christ seems to have been inseparable from his understanding or experience of the Father.

For the rest of us non-Pauline believers, the Father alone suffices. The others (including the Son) are "simply" messengers. But the message is (or should be) Jehovah, not "Christ."

Thomas Paine was right when he said "instead of God a man is preached"

And didn't Paul say something to the effect of "I preach Christ and him crucified".

Why not preach Jehovah?

I'm sure Paul mentioned YHVH by name. We've discussed this before on previous threads over the years. There is evidence that the Tetragrammaton appeared in the writings of Paul, before somewhere in the third century someone blotted out his references to YHVH and substituted "God" and "Lord."

Paul certainly said that he preached Christ crucified, because that is the way through which men can become reconciled to God. Jehovah made known that Christ was the way through which that reconciliation could occur.

"Jesus said to him: 'I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except THROUGH ME.'" (John 14:6)

[onewithhim]

Who was Paul's God? Was it "Christ"? Or was it Jehovah?

Yes.

Even today, Jews who desire not to misuse the Lord’s covenant name Yahweh say “Adonai� when they see the four letters of His name (YHWH) in the Hebrew Bible — the Old Testament. Adonai is used this way since it is actually another name for God in Scripture. In fact, taking into account its translation in the Greek New Testament as kurios, Adonai is the most common name for our Creator (God) in the Bible. We can see the equation of the two in Psalm 8 (verse 1): "O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth..."

The verse really reads, "O Yahweh, our Adonai..."

Yahweh as God’s name primarily reflects His covenant faithfulness, and Adonai speaks mainly of His sovereignty. In Scripture, the concepts of authority and omnipotence are inherent to the idea of divine sovereignty.

The title lord when used in reference to Jesus comes from the Greek word kurios, a translation of Adonai. Its frequent usage in the New Testament (Acts 7:59; Rom. 5:1; Heb. 13:20) is one of many indications of Jesus’ power, authority, and yes, His deity.

"Adonai" is not God's name. It is a title. There is one name for God and that is "YHVH," the Tetragrammaton, which is commonly translated as "Jehovah."

Jesus' title as "Lord" is not to be confused with "Lord" which refers to the Father, YHVH. In the Old Testament one can tell where the name of God appears (YHVH) because the title "LORD" has been inserted there where YHVH should be---in all upper-case letters. Jesus, the Messiah, is never referred to as "LORD" with all capital letters.

In the New Testament it is really difficult to distinguish between the Lords. Both YHVH and Jesus are referred to as "Lord," even though they are two different Persons. Because of this, most people have thought that wherever "Lord" is in the Greek Scriptures (N.T.) it is referring to Jesus. It is terrible that someone erased the name of God from the N.T. in the 3rd century and replaced His name with "Lord." And now many translations have eliminated God's name even from the O.T. What confusion for people! Satan is happy with this confusion.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 16 by onewithhim]

It is terrible that someone erased the name of God from the N.T. in the 3rd century and replaced His name with "Lord." And now many translations have eliminated God's name even from the O.T. What confusion for people! Satan is happy with this confusion.

Hi onewithhim.

How do you know for sure what you say happened in the third century is true?

Can you please provide evidence that the original Greek did indeed have God's name and was later changed to Kurios.

Thanks.

[PinSeeker]

"Adonai" is not God's name. It is a title. There is one name for God and that is "YHVH,"

That's right; that's what I said. And it's used for God the Father in the Old Testament (Psalm 8 was the example I used), and it's used for Jesus in the New Testament (Acts 7:59, Romans 5:1, and Hebrews 13:20, translated Kyrios in the Greek, were the examples I used, and I would cite John 20:25 and 28 there, too). "Adonai" was the name the Israelites and early Jews used instead of Yahweh to refer to God the Father, and in the New Testament, they're using it for Jesus.

Jesus' title as "Lord" is not to be confused with "Lord" which refers to the Father, YHVH.

But effectively, it is the same; YHWH/LORD is God's name according to God Himself, as He Himself said it, and Adonai/Lord is the title given to God by the Israelites/Jewish believers -- and subsequently Jesus -- (because they regarded His very name as holy, which it is, and unspeakable) denoting His authority, omnipotence, and divine sovereignty. And it's all part of God's Word, which is all God-breathed and... true.

Jesus, the Messiah, is never referred to as "LORD" with all capital letters.

Agreed, but He is referred to by the title Lord (capital 'L' only), as is God the Father.