The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

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The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:


PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.
That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #11

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

So, we can go through it... though I would suggest that just the first three verses of Revelation 20 show that the "thousand years" MUST be a future event.

Verses 1-3

"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time."


The Adversary is bound and locked away for the "thousand years", preventing him from deceiving the nations anymore, until the thousand years were ended.


Consider the following verses:

1 Peter 5:8

Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


James 4:7

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


2 Corinthians 2:10, 11

Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.



None of those show the Adversary as being bound and locked away, prevented from being able to deceive anyone. Just the opposite. So if the Adversary is bound for the "thousand years", how could the "thousand years" have already begun?



Gonna stop there for this post, for the moment.



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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #12

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 5 by myth-one.com]
The Millennium will began at the first resurrection which occurs at the Second Coming.

Quote:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection


Second resurrection?

Where is that term used, even once, in Revelation 20, or anywhere else in scripture?

First resurrection, yes, but this term is found only in Revelation 20 in direct association with another term, "the second death", as its counterpart.

Also of note, the term "the first death" is never used in the Bible.

Hmm...
Correct.

You agree that the term "second death" is used.

How can there be a second death without a first death?

Everyone is appointed to die once (the first death):
And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)
The second death (when cast into the lake of fire) is optional based on whether or not one chooses to accept Jesus as their Savior.

Thus there are two possible "deaths."

Both of which are physical deaths.
Correct.

==========================================================================
Christians are resurrected with everlasting spiritual bodies at the Second Coming.

All dead nonbelievers are resurrected a thousand years later as physical human bodies once again.

The two events are separated by one thousand years and involving two different groups -- believers then nonbelievers.

The Bible calls the resurrection at the Second Coming of believers the "First Resurrection."

Therefore, I distinguished the first from the next by calling it the "second."

I suppose it could also be called the "last" resurrection.
In other words, using first and second as to their time sequence (now and later).

That is correct for "second death" and incorrect for "first resurrection".

The word translated "first" has the primary meaning of "chief, most important, and similar.
From Strong's Concordance

prótos: first, chief
Original Word: π�ῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.
HELPS Word-studies

4413 prṓtos (an adjective, derived from 4253 /pró, "before, forward") – first (foremost). 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one")
I suggest, therefore, that te first resurrection is our spiritual resurrection tat took place wen webecame a new creation in Christ, with all that means.
Ephesians 2:

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
.

Without this happening we could only be in the second death.

It is "the first resurrection" that is essential to being what God intended.

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

QUESTION What is the 1000 year rule (sometimes refered to as "the Millennium"?

♦ANSWER Its the period after Jesus destroys all human governments, when he (Jesus) rules over the earth and makes life wonderful for everyone
The Millennium, the 1000 year rule of Christ (also called judgement " day" ) begins directly after Harmageddon ( the period when God kills off all incorigibly wicked people from the earth) and ends with the release of Satan from his 1000 year restriction.

Image


During this 1000 year period Christ will rule with his heavenly government from heaven and on earth, this our planet earth will be transformed into a paradise, the dead will be resurrected to once more be with their loved ones here on earth in renewed physical bodies and peace and harmony will at long, long last be enjoyed by all earths inhabitants.


Hallelujah!


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




RELATED POSTS


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How do Jehovah's Witness artists depict the 1000 year rule?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 23#p959723

Will God kill off all the animals at Armageddon?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 90#p964790


To learn more please go to other posts related to...


THE MILLENNIUM, PARADISE and ...THE BOOK OF REVELATION
GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #14

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to post 6 by Checkpoint]
But I will say, in reference to myth-one's response: See? I warned ya... Smile
You did.

Don't be too hard on him though.

I can think of others who flock to this issue.

It draws them like fish to water.

Ah well!

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #15

Post by myth-one.com »


brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 5 by myth-one.com]

So, should we be keeping the Sabbath now to be included? Not many do.
Keeping the Sabbath doesn't save anyone.

By not keeping the Sabbath, or keeping the wrong day as the Sabbath, we fail to see the sign which it represents.

We are supposed to work six days and rest on the seventh or sabbath. Many Christians believe that Sunday is the Sabbath.

Thus they rest on the first calendar day of the week and work the next six -- which has no relevance at all to God's creation of the earth.


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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #16

Post by tam »

Peace to you,


Just a quick interjection if I may:

In other words, using first and second as to their time sequence (now and later).

That is correct for "second death" and incorrect for "first resurrection".

The word translated "first" has the primary meaning of "chief, most important, and similar.
From Strong's Concordance

prótos: first, chief
Original Word: π�ῶτος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: prótos
Phonetic Spelling: (pro'-tos)
Definition: first, chief
Usage: first, before, principal, most important.
HELPS Word-studies

4413 prṓtos (an adjective, derived from 4253 /pró, "before, forward") – first (foremost). 4413 /prṓtos ("first, foremost") is the superlative form of 4253 /pró ("before") meaning "what comes first" (is "number one")

I'm not sure you're interpreting that quite right.

Outline of biblical usage for protos, from blueletterbible:



I - first in time or place

. A- in any succession of things or persons


II - first in rank

. A- influence, honour

. B- chief

. C- principal

III - first, at the first


***

pro'-tos; contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):—before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former.


https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 4413&t=KJV


If you continue scrolling down on the page that I linked, you will see examples of its usage in the bible, and you will find many uses of each of the two meanings (first in time or place, a succession - OR - first as in rank). The language itself shows that 'first' can indeed be used in the "first resurrection" as 'time, first in sequence'.








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tammy

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #17

Post by PinSeeker »

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 6 by Checkpoint]
But I will say, in reference to myth-one's response: See? I warned ya... Smile
You did.

Don't be too hard on him though.

I can think of others who flock to this issue.

It draws them like fish to water.

Ah well!
Yes, and it never ceases to amaze me that every single one thinks they have every bit of it right and everybody else has it totally wrong.

I'll offer this:

Christ has won the decisive victory over sin, death and Satan. By living a sinless life and by dying on the cross as the sacrifice of atonement for our sin, Christ defeated sin. By undergoing death and then victoriously rising from the grave, Christ defeated death. By resisting the devil’s temptations, by perfectly obeying God, and by his death and resurrection, Christ delivered a deathblow to Satan and his evil hosts. This victory of Christ’s was decisive and final. Because of the victory of Christ, the ultimate issues of history have already been decided. It is now only a question of time until that victory is brought to its final consummation.

The kingdom of God is both present and future. The kingdom of God is not primarily a Jewish kingdom which involves the literal restoration of the throne of David. Christ did not "postpone" the establishment of the kingdom to the time of his future earthly millennial reign because of the unbelief of the Jews of his day. The kingdom of God was founded by Christ at the time of his sojourn on earth, is operative in history now and is destined to be revealed in its fullness in the life to come.

The kingdom of God is therefore both a present reality and a future hope. For example, when the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, he replied, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, `Lo, here it is!’ or `There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you� (Lk. 17:20-21). But Jesus also taught that there was a sense in which the kingdom of God was still future, both in specific sayings (Mt. 7:21-23; 8:11-12) and in eschatological parables (such as those of the Marriage Feast, the Tares, the Talents, the Wise and Foolish Virgins). Paul also makes statements describing the kingdom as both present (Rom. 14:17; 1 Cor. 4:19-20; Col. 1:13-14) and future (1 Cor. 6:9; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5; 2 Tim. 4:18).

The fact that the kingdom of God is present in one sense and future in another implies that we who are the subjects of that kingdom live in a kind of tension between the “already� and the “not yet.� We are already in the kingdom, and yet we look forward to the full manifestation of that kingdom; we already share its blessings, and yet we await its total victory. Because the exact time when Christ will return is not known, the church must live with a sense of urgency, realizing that the end of history may be very near. At the same time, however, the church must continue to plan and work for a future on this present earth which may still last a long time.

Though the last day is still future, we are in the last days now. This aspect of eschatology, which is often neglected in evangelical circles, is an essential part of the New Testament message. To say “we are in the last days now� is to understand the expression “the last days� not merely as referring to the time just before Christ’s return, but as a description of the entire era between Christ’s first and second comings. New Testament writers were conscious of the fact that they were already living in the last days at the time they were speaking or writing. This was specifically stated by Peter in his sermon on the day of Pentecost when he quoted Joel’s prophecy about the pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh in the last days (Acts 2:16-17). He was thus saying in effect, “We are now in the last days predicted by the prophet Joel.� Paul made the same point when he described believers of his day as those “upon whom the end of the ages has come� (1 Cor. 10:11). And the Apostle John told his readers that they were already living in “the last hour� (1 Jn. 2:18). In the light of these New Testament teachings, we may indeed speak of an inaugurated eschatology, while remembering that the Bible also speaks of a final consummation of eschatological events in what John commonly calls “the last day� (Jn. 6:39-40, 44,54; 11:24; 12:48).

The fact that we are living in the last days now implies that we are already tasting the beginnings of eschatological blessings—that, as Paul says, we already have “the first fruits of the Spirit� (Rom. 8:23). This means that we who are believers are to see ourselves not as impotent sinners who are helpless in the face of temptation but as new creatures in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17), as temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 6:19) and as those who have decisively crucified the flesh (Gal. 5:24), put off the old self and put on the new (Col. 3:9-10). All this involves having an image of ourselves which is primarily positive rather than negative. It also involves seeing fellow Christians as those who are in Christ with us and for whom we should therefore thank God.

Following from all this is that, as far as the thousand years of Revelation 20 are concerned, we are in the millennium now. The thousand years of Revelation 20 extend from the first coming of Christ to just before his Second Coming, when Satan will be loosed for a short time. This position on the thousand years of Revelation 20 implies that Christians who are now living are enjoying the benefits of this millennium since Satan has been bound for the duration of this period. That Satan is now bound does not mean that he is not active in the world today but that during this period he cannot deceive the nations — that is, cannot prevent the spread of the gospel. The binding of Satan during this era, in other words, makes missions and evangelism possible. This should certainly be a source of encouragement to the church on earth.

During this same thousand-year period the souls of believers who have died are now living and reigning with Christ in heaven while they await the resurrection of the body. Their state is therefore a state of blessedness and happiness, though their joy will not be complete until their bodies have been raised. This should certainly bring comfort to those whose dear ones have died in the Lord.

The “signs of the times� have both present and future relevance. The return of Christ will be preceded by certain signs: for example, the preaching of the gospel to all the nations, the conversion of the fullness of Israel, the great apostasy, the great tribulation and the coming of the Antichrist. These signs, however, must not be thought of as referring exclusively to the time just preceding Christ’s return. They have been present in some sense from the very beginning of the Christian era and are present now. This means that we must always be ready for the Lord’s return and that we may never in our thoughts push the return of Christ off into the far-distant future. However, these “signs of the times� will have a climactic final fulfillment just before Christ returns. This fulfillment will not take the form of phenomena which are totally new but will rather be an intensification of signs which have been present all along.

At the time of Christ’s one return, there will be a general resurrection, both of believers and unbelievers; the resurrection of believers and that of unbelievers will not be separated by a thousand years. After the resurrection, believers who are then still alive shall suddenly be transformed and glorified. The basis for this teaching is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

There will be a "rapture" of sorts, but not of the sort that the entire church will be taken up to heaven for a period of seven years while those still on earth are undergoing the great tribulation. Believers who have just been raised from the dead, together with living believers who have just been transformed, are now caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17). Then follows the final judgment; scriptural evidence indicates only one Day of Judgment which will occur at the time of Christ’s return. All men must then appear before the judgment seat of Christ. After the judgment the final state is ushered in. Unbelievers and all those who have rejected Christ shall spend eternity in hell, whereas believers will enter into everlasting glory on the new earth.

The kingdom of God is central in human history. That kingdom was predicted and prepared for in Old Testament times, was established on earth by Jesus Christ, was extended and expanded both in New Testament times and during the subsequent history of the church, and will finally be consummated in the life to come. In all this, we have an inspiring vision of the lordship of Christ over history and of the ultimate triumph of his kingdom.

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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #18

Post by myth-one.com »


myth-one.com wrote: The Bible calls the resurrection at the Second Coming of believers the "First Resurrection."

Therefore, I distinguished the first from the next by calling it the "second."

I suppose it could also be called the "last" resurrection.
Checkpoint wrote: In other words, using first and second as to their time sequence (now and later).

That is correct for "second death" and incorrect for "first resurrection".

The word translated "first" has the primary meaning of "chief, most important, and similar.

I suggest, therefore, that the first resurrection is our spiritual resurrection that took place when webecame a new creation in Christ, with all that means.

Without this happening we could only be in the second death.

It is "the first resurrection" that is essential to being what God intended.
The second resurrection is equally important!

At the first resurrection, all Christians (dead and alive) are born again as spiritual bodied beings into the Kingdom of God. These are the humans with their names written in the Book of Life.

And yes, they are resurrected as spirits equal unto the angels. They will never have any physical body ever again.

It is a spiritual birth of the Spirit, and that which is born of the Spirit IS spirit!

===================================================================

A thousand years later, the second and final resurrection occurs. These are resurrected as physical human bodies once again.

They then face the judgment.

After their judgment, whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection!

So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Would God raise these people again as physical bodies only to humiliate them during their judgment before casting them into the lake of fire?

Of course not, God is love, and He is raising the nonbelievers for a reason! One event prophesied to occur before the end of time is that the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity!

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior will have their names written into the Book of Life. That is why the book is checked again!

In actuality, more people will probably be born again after the second resurrection than at the first!

They will be preached the good news of the gospel from a child:
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ. (II Timothy 3:15)
These children are those born again at the first resurrection:
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)
These children of the resurrection are now one thousand years of age, having lived through the millennium period of rest and training.

In fact, they are only one day old children!


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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #19

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: During this same thousand-year period the souls of believers who have died are now living and reigning with Christ in heaven while they await the resurrection of the body.
There are spiritual bodies and physical bodies.

Some characteristics of spiritual bodies: immortal, all knowing, omnipresent, no pain, no fear, no hunger, no thirst, no lust, no hot, no cold, no physical discomfort, etc.

Some characteristics of physical bodies: mortal, limited intelligence, restricted to a time and place, pain, fear, hunger, thirst, lust, hot, cold, etc.

Is there one thing gained by a "soul" merging back with its resurrected physical body?

Shouldn't the soul be dreading the resurrection??


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Re: The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

Post #20

Post by ttruscott »

myth-one.com wrote: Is there one thing gained by a "soul" merging back with its resurrected physical body?

Shouldn't the soul be dreading the resurrection??
The flesh contains the sin, it is NOT the sin nor causes it. This slide into gnosticism is exposed by the person, the spirit that is the person is sinful, not the body. A sinner in any body is still a sinner; a holy person in any body is still holy.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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