"Easter", as remembered and celebrated today.

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Checkpoint
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"Easter", as remembered and celebrated today.

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

I do not refer to its name but to the events that are believed to have happened 2000 years ago, and their significance.

Where do you stand, and why?

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Post #71

Post by otseng »

Sojournerofthearth wrote: [Replying to JehovahsWitness]

Right out of the gate...
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Post #72

Post by Checkpoint »

brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

God has already fulfilled the scriptures about the Jews being gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. That was a prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold their returning from Babylon and everywhere else that they had been dispersed to after the conquering of Israel by Babylon. There is no more literal fulfillment of that prophecy.
God's not gathering Jews(remember they are only 3 tribes at best), He's gathering Isreal. Isreal is a mixed multitude.
He has been gathering Jews and Gentiles, a mixed multitude having been made one in Christ.
Matthew 28:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all cultures

Revelation 7:

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every culture, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

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Post #73

Post by brianbbs67 »

Checkpoint wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

God has already fulfilled the scriptures about the Jews being gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. That was a prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold their returning from Babylon and everywhere else that they had been dispersed to after the conquering of Israel by Babylon. There is no more literal fulfillment of that prophecy.
God's not gathering Jews(remember they are only 3 tribes at best), He's gathering Isreal. Isreal is a mixed multitude.
He has been gathering Jews and Gentiles, a mixed multitude having been made one in Christ.
Matthew 28:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all cultures

Revelation 7:

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every culture, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Yes, He is gathering us unto Isreal. Thats an interesting word. Is real.

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Post #74

Post by onewithhim »

brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

God has already fulfilled the scriptures about the Jews being gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. That was a prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold their returning from Babylon and everywhere else that they had been dispersed to after the conquering of Israel by Babylon. There is no more literal fulfillment of that prophecy.
God's not gathering Jews(remember they are only 3 tribes at best), He's gathering Isreal. Isreal is a mixed multitude.
Could you please elaborate?

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Post #75

Post by onewithhim »

brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: The Way was a sect of Judaism. We don't follow Christ as Christ instructed. Why does everyone ignore this, and quote Paul, against his meaning? Is Paul greater than Christ? I celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread, ...
If you think that the way was simply a sect of Judaism you are being just like Jesus enemies the Pharisees, which is what Paul preached against. The writings of Paul reflect a correct understanding of Christianity as an entirely new creation not a break off from the old.

Jesus did not jnstruct his folowers to celebrate the seven day Jewish festival of unleaven bread (cakes) and I seriously if you do anyway, that is unless you only eat unleven bread with your meals for seven days and go to the Temple in Jerusalem to offer a wave offering while your high priest sacrifices as sheep. Did you rebuild the Temple and appoint a descendant of Aaron as High Priest to celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread if not, whatever you do it isn't Feast of unleaven Bread anywhere except in your imagination?


JESUS didn't ask his followers to keep any of the Jewish festivals. What he did ask was that his followers remember his death by means of a very simple ceremony that involved gathering together on a specific date with bread and wine. And Paul endorsed this.




JW



RELATED POSTS
What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 336#879336

Did Jesus indicate he came start a "new" religion ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 645#792645

Why did Jesus only introduce the notion of his sacrificial death towards the end of his ministry?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 638#962638



Go to other posts related to EASTER, CHRISTIANITY and ...RANSOM
First one, Jesus was a jew and came in his words only to the lost sheep of Isreal. Prophecy of Isreal coming to life. What did Christ tell us to do? Chiefly follow the law. To the Pharisees and onlookers, he said, "they sit in Moses' seat, what they say, do"

Second they are not Jewish Feasts, but Gods. "These are My feasts and appointed times"

Yes I eat only unleavened bread for a week. Its not that hard. None of the temple or priest law is able to be carried out as scripture indicates, so no trip to Temple as their is none.

Christ most certainly told. emphatically. His disciples to follow the law and commandments. Its all over the 4 Gospels. There's even a thread here about it. He followed it perfectly.

Are we not to follow Christ? The disciples, including Paul, all kept the feasts and holy days of God. Christ did and spoke in the Temple. He never said don't speak in the temple on the Sabbath(or have one on Sunday, neither did God)). So, are we to follow what Christ did or what man thinks it means? What does it mean to follow the way of someone?
Christ told his followers to follow the Law up to the point of his death, which, by his dying, would FULFILL the Law. Thereafter no one would have to follow The Law per se. Jehovah said that he would place the "Law" on their hearts with the New Covenant.

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Post #76

Post by Checkpoint »

brianbbs67 wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

God has already fulfilled the scriptures about the Jews being gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. That was a prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold their returning from Babylon and everywhere else that they had been dispersed to after the conquering of Israel by Babylon. There is no more literal fulfillment of that prophecy.
God's not gathering Jews(remember they are only 3 tribes at best), He's gathering Isreal. Isreal is a mixed multitude.
He has been gathering Jews and Gentiles, a mixed multitude having been made one in Christ.
Matthew 28:

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all cultures

Revelation 7:

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every culture, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Yes, He is gathering us unto Isreal. Thats an interesting word. Is real.
Go on, then, tell me how it came about and what exactly it means.

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Post #77

Post by brianbbs67 »

onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: The Way was a sect of Judaism. We don't follow Christ as Christ instructed. Why does everyone ignore this, and quote Paul, against his meaning? Is Paul greater than Christ? I celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread, ...
If you think that the way was simply a sect of Judaism you are being just like Jesus enemies the Pharisees, which is what Paul preached against. The writings of Paul reflect a correct understanding of Christianity as an entirely new creation not a break off from the old.

Jesus did not jnstruct his folowers to celebrate the seven day Jewish festival of unleaven bread (cakes) and I seriously if you do anyway, that is unless you only eat unleven bread with your meals for seven days and go to the Temple in Jerusalem to offer a wave offering while your high priest sacrifices as sheep. Did you rebuild the Temple and appoint a descendant of Aaron as High Priest to celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread if not, whatever you do it isn't Feast of unleaven Bread anywhere except in your imagination?


JESUS didn't ask his followers to keep any of the Jewish festivals. What he did ask was that his followers remember his death by means of a very simple ceremony that involved gathering together on a specific date with bread and wine. And Paul endorsed this.




JW



RELATED POSTS
What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 336#879336

Did Jesus indicate he came start a "new" religion ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 645#792645

Why did Jesus only introduce the notion of his sacrificial death towards the end of his ministry?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 638#962638



Go to other posts related to EASTER, CHRISTIANITY and ...RANSOM
First one, Jesus was a jew and came in his words only to the lost sheep of Isreal. Prophecy of Isreal coming to life. What did Christ tell us to do? Chiefly follow the law. To the Pharisees and onlookers, he said, "they sit in Moses' seat, what they say, do"

Second they are not Jewish Feasts, but Gods. "These are My feasts and appointed times"

Yes I eat only unleavened bread for a week. Its not that hard. None of the temple or priest law is able to be carried out as scripture indicates, so no trip to Temple as their is none.

Christ most certainly told. emphatically. His disciples to follow the law and commandments. Its all over the 4 Gospels. There's even a thread here about it. He followed it perfectly.

Are we not to follow Christ? The disciples, including Paul, all kept the feasts and holy days of God. Christ did and spoke in the Temple. He never said don't speak in the temple on the Sabbath(or have one on Sunday, neither did God)). So, are we to follow what Christ did or what man thinks it means? What does it mean to follow the way of someone?
Christ told his followers to follow the Law up to the point of his death, which, by his dying, would FULFILL the Law. Thereafter no one would have to follow The Law per se. Jehovah said that he would place the "Law" on their hearts with the New Covenant.

Where did he he say this? Where did he contradict Jeremiah? If it contradicts it must be abandoned. So, by answering your post, it is fulfilled ? Why do you think his death changed what he preached? What did God say He would place on their Hearts? His Law. God does not change, He is the same , today , tomorrow and yesterday. Same covenant, forgiveness promised again.

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Post #78

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 76 by brianbbs67]
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17)

Jesus did not abolish the law (he did not have the right to), he fulfilled it. Jesus explicitly stated he came to fulfill the law meaning he perfectly kept the law and fulfilled its purpose. Naturally when something has been fulfilled/has served its purpose, it ceases to be in order.
To illustrate: Imagine you has a contract with a builder to build a house for you. The builder fulfilled the contract and completed the house as promised. Is the contract still binding? Is he still under contract to build a house? No, the contract has been fulfilled and it can no longer be used, it has fulfilled its purpose.
Image

In a similar way, by the end of his earthly life Christ "FULLFILLED" the law, and it became obsolete following his death* and resurrection, replaced by the vastly superior "law of the Christ"
ROMANS 10:4
For Christ is the end of the Law - NWT

EPHESIANS 2:15
By means of his flesh * he [Jesus] abolished the emnity, the law of commandements consisting in decrees - NWT

"He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations." - NLT

ROMANS 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law [...]

COLOSSIANS 3:13,14
God ... erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.*

ACTS 15:21
For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you [gentile Chtistians] except these necessary things: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality.

GALATIANS 5:18
But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses. - NLT

* NOTE Notice the bible says this "abolishment" was {quote} "by means of his flesh" that it was "taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake" an obvious reference to Christ's execution, so the law wasn't FULFILLED happen until Jesus gave sacrificed his earthly body. Thus the law was fully operation UNTIL Christ's death.

CONCLUSION Jesus fulfilled the law, it therefore came to its natural end.


VIDEO LECTURE Geoffrey W. Jackson: Jesus Fulfilled the Law (Matt. 5:43)
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODPgm ... 5_12_VIDEO


kataluo [ destroy]
https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/2647.html

Blog commentary katalou/plhrwsai [Gal 6/Mat 5:17]
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... moses.html


RELATED POSTS
Does Mat 5:18 not indicate that none of the Mosaic law would ever pass away?
viewtopic.php?p=1042911#p1042911

Did Jesus instruct NON-JEWISH believers to observe the Mosaic law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 043#964043

In what sense was there "one law" for all in ancient Israel?
Is .php?p=1079703#p1079703

Did Jesus indicate he came start a "new" religion ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 645#792645

Why did Jesus only introduce the notion of his sacrificial death towards the end of his ministry?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 638#962638

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE PASSOVER
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 28, 2022 2:32 pm, edited 22 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #79

Post by rstrats »

JehovahsWitness,


If the verse had stopped at "Law" you might have a point. However, it adds "the Prophets". Thus it seems it is referring to the first 5 books of scripture (called the law) plus the prophetical books. So when the Messiah says He came to fulfill them, He must be talking about fulfilling the prophesies said with regard to a coming Messiah.

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Post #80

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 78 by rstrats]


I am not following your reasoning...yes the Mosaic law (the Torah) is outlined in what today we have as the first five books of the bible and the Prophets are throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, what relevance on the fact that Jesus fulfilled both the Torah (first five bookks) and the many bible prophecies?

Can you explain?


Thank you

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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