How can the son of David also be his Lord?

[Checkpoint]

Perhaps you can solve the conundrum Jesus put to the Pharisees that completely stumped them?

Matthew 22:

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?�

“The son of David,� they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44  ‘YHVH said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.� ’

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?�

46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

The Pharisees couldn't come up with any answer.

How about you?

What do you think?

How would you answer him?

[Elijah John]

Nowhere.

He doesn't call him "David" either, or any name other than "Lord".

And to address Overcomer's point as well, "Adonai" or "My Lord" does not necessitate or prove the Psalmist is referring to the Messiah at all. "My Lord" is also a term of respect and subordination when addressing human kings. The way I read it, the second "Lord" is King David himself, not the Messiah. King David is the Psalmist's human "Lord".

Context supports this interpretation. It would be odd for King David to refer to the Messiah when there is no evidence that he was even aware of the concept of "Messiah" in the first place, or if he was, where is the evidence that he was? Chapter and verse please.

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 21 by Elijah John]

It would be odd for King David to refer to the Messiah when there is no evidence that he was even aware of the concept of "Messiah" in the first place, or if he was, where is the evidence that he was? Chapter and verse please.

Was Moses also unaware of the concept of the Messiah, EJ?

[Elijah John]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 21 by Elijah John]

It would be odd for King David to refer to the Messiah when there is no evidence that he was even aware of the concept of "Messiah" in the first place, or if he was, where is the evidence that he was? Chapter and verse please.

Was Moses also unaware of the concept of the Messiah, EJ?

Seems to have been. Or are you taking the passage of "another, greater prophet" to be evidence of that he was aware of a Messiah to come?

Where did Moses ever preach that the Messiah will die to "pay for" our sins, and that the animal sacrifices he prescribed were just foreshadows of that human, blood atonement? Unless I missed it, I don't think he did.

And what about David? Were does David give us any clear indication that he aware of any concept of "Messiah? "Clear" being the key word here.

[tam]

[Replying to post 23 by Elijah John]

From chabad.org

The Scriptures are replete with messianic quotes. In Deuteronomy 30:1 Moses prophesies that, after the Jews have been scattered to the four corners of the earth, there will come a time when they will repent and return to Israel, where they will fulfill all the commandments of the Torah. The gentile prophet Balaam prophesies that this return will be led by Moshiach (see Numbers 24:17–20). Jacob refers to Moshiach by the name Shiloh (Genesis 49:10).

The prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Joel and Hosea all refer to the messianic era.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_ ... f-Days.htm

[Avoice]

The song was written for David to sing in the Temple. The word psalm means song in Hebrew.

The church played with the psalm to make it sound like its about Jesus.. Open any English bible translation. Look how the word Lord looks identical to the other word Lord.

In Hebrew they are entirely different. Whereas the first word “Lord� in the Hebrew is a correct translation of יהוה.Gods Holy Name. The second word “Lord� is a complete and deliberate mistranslation of the text. The second word “Lord� in the verse is an appalling translation of the Hebrew word לַ�דֹנִי; (pronounced ladonee).

The correct and only translation of ladonee is “to my master� or “to my lord.� The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is used only to address a person, never God. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.
The writer of the psalm is saying this:
The Lord (meaning God) said to my lord (King David) . ...

[onewithhim]

Perhaps you can solve the conundrum Jesus put to the Pharisees that completely stumped them?

Matthew 22:

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?�

“The son of David,� they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44  ‘YHVH said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.� ’

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?�

46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

The Pharisees couldn't come up with any answer.

How about you?

What do you think?

How would you answer him?

It's pretty easy when you realize that Jesus existed before David or anybody else was born. The Bible says that God made everything through him (Colossians 1:16; I Corinthians 8:6).

Then, when Adam rebelled, Jesus was instructed to come to earth as a human, through the line of David, his forefather. Jesus was born as a man here on Earth, but he still remained superior to David because Jesus existed before David was born.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

Not saying that the writer of the Psalm was mistaken. But that the attribution to King David of that Psalm is likely erroneous.

Yes, of course I could be mistaken. And so could Jesus. And he was, (Matthew 16.28) or if not Jesus, Matthew was.

Yeah right.

In view of what you claim, how would you answer Jesus?

First, let's keep this between you and me. If you accept the conventional Christian interpretation, then answer me this. Where else does David refer to the Messiah in the Psalms? I know of no other instance if indeed this is actually a Davidic Psalm and David is indeed referring to the Messiah.

"Why are the nations agitated and the peoples muttering an empty thing? The kings of the earth take their stand and high officials gather together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one....'I myself have installed my King on Zion, my holy mountain.'...'Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance and the ends of the earth as your possession. You will break them with an iron scepter, and you will smash them like a piece of pottery.'...Honor the Son, or God will become indignant and you will perish from the way." (Psalm 2:1,2,6-9,12)

This was written by David, and it doesn't sound like he was referring to himself, does it? This clearly is a reference to the Messiah, as both Isaiah and Daniel indicate (Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44)

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 25 by onewithhim]


You cant use the Christian Testament to prove its claims. It would be like me writing a book which says if you mix black paint with white paint you get green paint. Then someone claims what i said us true and to price it uses my book.

God made everything through Jesus? Where is God credited to have said that?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]

Unfortunately, Ps.2:11-12 in most KJ based bibles is mistranslated. The JPS, Stone's Tanakh, and the LXX, which Christ would have used, all read like this,
11.Serve Hashem with awe that you may rejoice when there is trembling. 12. Yearn for purity/accept correction, lest He grow wrathful and your way be doomed, for in a brief moment His anger will blaze; praiseworthy/happy are mall who trust Him.

With that said, the footnote in the JPS for the first words of 12 states "meaning of ancient Hebrew uncertain. But, the LXX was what Christ would have used(or at least be aware of) and it agrees with Jewish wording.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 25 by onewithhim]


You cant use the Christian Testament to prove its claims. It would be like me writing a book which says if you mix black paint with white paint you get green paint. Then someone claims what i said us true and to price it uses my book.

God made everything through Jesus? Where is God credited to have said that?

I agree we should look at history and other translations from the Hebrews and use Deut 13 to test every prophet or teaching.

But, I have found the JPS guilty of the same purposeful translation "errors" as the KJV. Zechariah 12 in the 1980 Tanakh reads different than the 1917 or earlier, all to remove posible reference to Yeshua. Also, the Tanakh wasn't modernly put together until the 800s as much was lost during the Diaspora and burning of the temple. The term Rabbi came into existance around 500 ad. As far as I know, it simply means repeater of the Word. So most Hebrews only had oral tradition for almost 900 years. I know oral tradition is usually very accurate but things can be lost, like the myriad of JPS footnotes the say "meaning of ancient Hebrew uncertain". For that honesty, I appreciate the JPS and hold it in high regard.