Reality is not objective nor subjective.

[Swami]

I want to make a distinction between objective 'knowledge' and objective existence. Science assumes that the world is objective, that the Universe and objects in it exists independently of us. I really question this position. I distinguish this position from objective knowledge because 'knowing' reality as it is does not cover how reality exists - whether it be objective or not. From here on, lets focus on the notion of an objective world or existence.

Objective reality: Reality exists independently of a subject. The objects of the Universe, all the things that we can perceive, exist in their own right.

Subjective reality: Reality is dependent on a subject. Everything is simply a mental construct - a product of our perceptual experience.

Conscious Universe or reality (Eastern perspective): There is no real difference between subject and object. Both are just manifestations of consciousness. The world is derived from this consciousness and so am I. Here's more on this position...

Our scriptures declare that creation is the play of consciousness. It differentiates itself into diverse things and in the end withdraws everything into itself for no apparent and specific reason because God does nothing with any particular aim or desire. Says the Yoga Vashista, "The world is nothing but a mere vibration of consciousness in space. It seems to exist even as a goblin seems to exist in the eyes of the ignorant. All this is but Maya: for here there is no contradiction between the infinite consciousness and the apparent existence of the universe. It is like the marvelous dream of a person who is awake."

Source: https://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/e ... a.asp#bk01

I no longer accept that the 1st option (objective reality) after studying consciousness and experiencing its true nature. I never really accepted the 2nd option although I view it more as an incomplete truth instead of being false. I accept that the third option, the Eastern perspective, is the truth. As many know, I've offered an accessible and objective way to verify my claims - meditation. Meditation is objective approach in that it leads you to consciousness without any mental input (objectivity is being independent of the "mind"). The mind is silenced so all of your perceptions in this state are those that are part of the pure conscious state.

The third option should make sense even to Western thinkers. The way I see it is the only way we know about reality in the first place is through our experience of it. I've never experienced anything independent of consciousness. I've experienced being independent from my mind, body, and all other forms but never are my experiences independent of consciousness. So how can I say that something exist independent of my consciousness or of myself?

Topic here... please provide scientific reason why an objective world exists. Please show anything that exists that does not require awareness or the experience of it existing.

[Divine Insight]

Topic here... please provide scientific reason why an objective world exists. Please show anything that exists that does not require awareness or the experience of it existing.

This is an absurd demand on your part. Please provide a means by which your demand could be falsified. All you are doing is demanding that someone prove something which cannot be falsified. You cannot disprove solipsism either so does that fact support that solipsism must then be true?

Of course not.

As many know, I've offered an accessible and objective way to verify my claims - meditation. Meditation is objective approach in that it leads you to consciousness without any mental input (objectivity is being independent of the "mind"). The mind is silenced so all of your perceptions in this state are those that are part of the pure conscious state.

But you claim that mediation verifies your claims is itself clearly false and easily shown to be false.

For one thing, you cannot remain in this state of pure consciousness that you claim to have experienced. You must always cease to meditate at some point in which case you instantly snap back to the "objective reality" that you had imagined doesn't exist. In fact, if you are meditating within our reach we can "yank" you back to objective reality anytime we so choose by simply interrupting your meditation. Therefore you state of so-called "meditation" is really nothing more than a state of "imagination" where you are imagining to be something other than a physical human being. But you cannot retain that state of existence forever. In fact, if you could meditate non-stop you would soon die for lack of food and water.

I think your objective existence is far more well-established than your claim to be some form of universal consciousness that does not rely on physical existence.

So you claim to have "verified" anything is easily revealed to be false.

Physical reality has been shown to be the truth of reality. If someone gets tired of hearing your arguments for a reality of non-physical state of consciousness all they need to do is physically disable you and you will no longer be able to voice those opinions.

So physical reality wins big time when it comes down to 'verifiable evidence'.

The Eastern Mystical view of reality may be fun to imagine. It may even be extreme attractive to believe as a matter of pure faith. But let's face it, you have gone far beyond either of those two positions by trying to claim that you have "verified" the Eastern Mystical view via mediation. Even the Dalai Lama knows better than to make such an absurd claim. Even the Dalai Lama openly confesses that it's a belief system based entirely on faith and there is no proof or verification for it.

[Swami]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]
Lets set aside the notion of a universal consciousness. It is one conclusion of mine. I'm more interested in offering a method or path that people can explore for themselves. If there's any view or conclusion that I will continue to spread it is that meditation is a reliable, accessible, and an objective tool for exploring self.

Beyond that, I can only hope that people will follow some of my points to their logical end, like the topic I have for discussion here. Everything we experience and know about is in consciousness. This is undeniable.

[Divine Insight]

Lets set aside the notion of a universal consciousness. It is one conclusion of mine. I'm more interested in offering a method or path that people can explore for themselves. If there's any view or conclusion that I will continue to spread it is that meditation is a reliable, accessible, and an objective tool for exploring self.

You talk like as if you have just discovered something that no one else has ever heard o before. Meditation has been around for thousands of years. In fact, scientists have studied meditation and they have not come to the same conclusions about it that you appear to have jumped to. Meditation does not verify the conclusions that you keep claiming it justifies.

Beyond that, I can only hope that people will follow some of my points to their logical end, like the topic I have for discussion here. Everything we experience and know about is in consciousness. This is undeniable.

Of course everything we know and experience is due to our being conscious. That's a given. If you aren't conscious you're not going to experience or know anything. But that does not imply that all of reality is based solely on consciousness. You keep making non-sequitur claims like as if they are rational conclusions. But they aren't.

What I see is that people who follow your points are simply going to be drawn into the very bad practice of jumping to non-sequitur conclusions based on illogical and bad "reasoning".

As I say, believing on faith that life is but a dream of some mystical consciousness is fine. But your non-sequitur arguments do not support that faith.

There is no evidence that an experience of meditation is able to confirm that conscious is the basis of reality. All it confirms is that without consciousness you would not be able to imagine such dreams. But just because you can imagine them does not make them true. We can imagine a lot of things that we know are not true. Therefore we actually have overwhelming evidence that dreaming (or meditating) cannot be trusted to reveal any truths about reality.

In fact, if someone pinches you while you are meditating you'll come back to the "Real Physical World" very quickly. Thus proving that the real physical world overrides mediation quite easily. Just the opposite of the irrational conclusions that you would prefer to jump to.

All you are doing is trying to encourage people to jump to non-sequitur conclusions when the evidence against those obviously false conclusions is overwhelming.

And since you are doing this on a public forum it's only justified that the fallacy of your claims should be exposed so readers don't fall into the illogical fallacies that you keep presenting.