Civil Debates on Christianity and Religions

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StuartJ
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:00 pm  Did Jesus Die a Virgin ...? Reply with quote

Jesus' propagandists don't give us this detail.

So - as with a number of things - it becomes necessary to find what you want to find by using fancy words like "exegesis" and "hermeneutics".

Those who WANT him to have kept his loincloth on find:

However, as Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, he gave a new identity and purpose to celibacy (Mt 19:12). For Jesus, it was not a sign of barrenness but of mission (cf. 1 Cor 7). We know that Jesus consecrated his entire self in love to God the Father and dedicated himself wholly to the mission of spreading God’s kingdom. http://themiscellany.org/2017/07/11/why-was-jesus-celibate/

Those who WANT him to have had a sex life find:

Given ancient Jewish marital custom, it is simply unlikely that Jesus was unmarried, and he probably was assigned a wife long before he became an itinerant preacher and met up with male and female disciples on the road. I just find it hard to believe that this wandering rabbi and his gang of 12 surely horny men were unmarried and celibate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/jesus-sex-life-on-the-down-low_b_516...

Did Jesus die a virgin ...?

Can one CHOOSE what one WANTS to be true ...?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:52 pm
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RightReason wrote:


Uuummm . . . first it might be important to notice that the first example of the probability of Jesus being unmarried is evidence from Scripture itself. The second example of Jesus perhaps being married is from the Huffington Post.




Whether Jesus was married or not is irrelevant to the issue being addressed. Unmarried people are capable of having sex. Married people are capable of abstaining.


Jesus was a religious leader worshipped by many. As we know from recent news concerning the Catholic church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Southern Baptist church that religious leaders commonly use their position of power to sexually abuse those they claim to be ministering to. There is no reason to assume Jesus was immune to this abuse of power.



Tcg

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:38 am
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[Replying to post 11 by Tcg]




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Whether Jesus was married or not is irrelevant to the issue being addressed. Unmarried people are capable of having sex. Married people are capable of abstaining.


Sure. But where is the historical evidence? Where is the Biblical evidence? There is nothing indicating Jesus had relations with women married or unmarried. We need to base our knowledge on what we do know. We do know that Jesus was a firm believer in chastity. We know He believed fornication was a sin. We know those who knew Him believed Him to be a man of His word. I highly doubt if He preached against fornication and then others knew or saw Him with other women they would have respected Him much. I doubt they would have thought He was very sincere and highly doubt people would have given up everything to follow Him if they witnessed Him living contrary to what He claimed.


Quote:
Jesus was a religious leader worshipped by many. As we know from recent news concerning the Catholic church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Southern Baptist church that religious leaders commonly use their position of power to sexually abuse those they claim to be ministering to.



Sure, religious leaders as well as non religious leaders. Seems Boy Scouts of America, countless school teachers and coaches and those in positions of power in secular schools/organizations and universities abused their power as well. In fact, if we are being honest and fair, there are a greater number of incidences of abuse in the public school system and in Hollywood, then say in the priesthood. But you know most don’t like to be fair or just because it sounds better to think it’s all those bad religious people.

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There is no reason to assume Jesus was immune to this abuse of power.


Yeah, lots of people have abused their power AND guess what? Lots have NOT. For example, the overwhelming majority of Catholic priests are good men. There is no evidence or reason to think Jesus was married, sexually active, or abusive. It just isn’t there. It’s wishful thinking from the anti-religious.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:50 am
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[Replying to post 12 by RightReason]

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We do know that Jesus was a firm believer in chastity. We know He believed fornication was a sin. We know those who knew Him believed Him to be a man of His word.

Do we? And here's me thinking that we didn't actually have anything from Jesus's own hand, it's all third, fourth, fifth hand and who knows what exactly he means.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:58 am
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[Replying to post 13 by rikuoamero]

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Quote:
We do know that Jesus was a firm believer in chastity. We know He believed fornication was a sin. We know those who knew Him believed Him to be a man of His word.

Do we?


Look, accepting that Jesus Christ was our Lord and Savior requires faith. No one is denying that. Accepting that the Bible is God’s revelation to us is also a matter of faith. If one accepts the Bible, which most Christians do, then yes, we can say we know how Jesus felt about sex outside of marriage.

Religious belief requires faith and reason.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 am
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RightReason wrote:

[Replying to post 13 by rikuoamero]

Quote:
Quote:
We do know that Jesus was a firm believer in chastity. We know He believed fornication was a sin. We know those who knew Him believed Him to be a man of His word.

Do we?


Look, accepting that Jesus Christ was our Lord and Savior requires faith. No one is denying that. Accepting that the Bible is God’s revelation to us is also a matter of faith. If one accepts the Bible, which most Christians do, then yes, we can say we know how Jesus felt about sex outside of marriage.

Religious belief requires faith and reason.

Please substantiate this claim (Jesus was a firm believer in chastity, in no sex outside marriage). Do you believe that Jesus is an agent or incarnation of the God described in the Old Testament? That God was apparently hunky-dory with all sorts of fornication, except for when he wasn't. Abraham could diddle his half-sister, and the help...but Onan wasn't allowed to pull out while diddling his brother's widow.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:56 am
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[Replying to rikuoamero]

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Please substantiate this claim (Jesus was a firm believer in chastity, in no sex outside marriage). Do you believe that Jesus is an agent or incarnation of the God described in the Old Testament?



The OT and the NT are pretty consistent regarding sexual morality. Not sure how you are choosing to interpret Sacred Scripture, but I see no contradiction in what God the Father was cool with and what Jesus was cool with and or not cool with. They both believed in chastity, the wrongness of divorce, the wrongness of contraception (which is what the sin of Onin actually was. We see throughout the NT Jesus upholding the commands and moral law prescribed by God the Father. It would be very difficult to suggest otherwise. I suggest your interpretation is lacking and or cherry picked.

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