John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Wootah
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John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Post by Wootah »

Jesus said: John 5 23: that all may honour the Son, just as they honour the Father.

Does any being that is not God deserve to be honoured equally with God?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: Jesus said: John 5 23: that all may honour the Son, just as they honour the Father.

Does any being that is not God deserve to be honoured equally with God?

Did Jesus actually say the word "equally"?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

How does that help? If I do anything to honour the Father that I don't do for the Son then Im not listening to that verse.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 3 by Wootah]

Is honour mutually exclusive? Can one not honour both Jesus and his father ,; honour Jesus because he is God's son, honour JEHOVAH because he is the Almighty and superior to everyone (including the son) and ... and honour our parents because they looked after us and taught us as children?
DEUTERONOMY 5:16

Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you...

Is that not possible?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by 2timothy316 »

I didn't realize there are levels of honor. The Bible says to honor my parents. (Ex 20:12) It also says to honor to men of all sorts. (1 Peter 2:17) Yes honor Jesus and honor his Father Jehovah. I see no difference made in the level of honor in any verse. You either honor someone or you don't. There is no 'kind of honoring' someone. Kind of honoring someone is like being 'kind of pregnant'. No one be 'kind of pregnant'. On/off, up/down, dead/alive, honor/dishonor etc etc.

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

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Post by Elijah John »

Wootah wrote: Jesus said: John 5 23: that all may honour the Son, just as they honour the Father.

Does any being that is not God deserve to be honoured equally with God?
Yeah, that is a good point. But it's from the least reliable most recent Gospel. The outlier Gospel which differs in many significant ways from the Synoptics.

In John, Jesus does not really "empty himself" as Paul would have it. On the contrary, he grasps for a share of the glory of the Father. Far more so than he does in Matthew, Mark or Luke.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #7

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to 2timothy316]

Easily disproven. In a running race the person that comes first is honoured with a gold medal and the person that comes second with a silver medal. But it would be wrong to honour second with a gold medal abd even more wrong to honour them with two gold medals.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

Post #8

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes you can honour both. Would you honour Jesus more or less than God?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #9

Post by 2timothy316 »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to 2timothy316]

Easily disproven. In a running race the person that comes first is honoured with a gold medal and the person that comes second with a silver medal. But it would be wrong to honour second with a gold medal abd even more wrong to honour them with two gold medals.
You're not describing honor, your describing a reward. All are honored, the metals are not honor. There is even an 'honorable mention' metal. To honor someone is to "regard with great respect". Metals have nothing to do with real honor. This is something mankind has invented for completion. Different metals are rewards for when one person is better at another in a particular field. Jehovah and His Son are not in completion with each other.

There are no degrees of honor. If you are not fully honoring someone than you are dishonoring them. No one has to dishonor Jesus in order to honor Jehovah. I don't dishonor my mother in some way so just so that I can honor my father more. I honor them the same. So you metal analogy is not a good representation.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: John 5 23 - divinity claim?

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes you can honour both. Would you honour Jesus more or less than God?

I would honour Jesus less than God. Jesus has never asked for any glory or honour that belonged to his father.




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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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