Heathen Superstitions

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SallyF
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Heathen Superstitions

Post #1

Post by SallyF »

Treatise on the Heathen Superstitions that Today Live Among the Indians Native to this New Spain, 1629

"The Treatise of Hernando Ruiz de Alarcón is one of the most important surviving documents of early colonial Mexico. It was written in 1629 as an aid to Roman Catholic churchmen in their efforts to root out the vestiges of pre-Columbian Aztec religious beliefs and practices. ... With great care and attention to detail Ruiz de Alarcón collected and recorded Aztec religious practices and incantations that had survived a century of Spanish domination (sometimes in his zeal extracting information from his informants through force and guile)." https://books.google.com.au/books/about ... edir_esc=y

Paying particular attention to the belief that Jesus was a human sacrifice to assuage the anger of the mythological Jehovah god (of whom there is no evidence offered other than belief and human writings) and that Christians pretend to eat the meat and drink the blood of the human sacrifice: is Christianity also full of "heathen superstition" ...?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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rikuoamero
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Post #51

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 35 by FWI]
True religion is something that has been started by God, who has given humans a set of rules and regulations to follow.
For sake of argument, I'll go with that. Privately, I don't see a reason why a real god would even bother with a religion at all, but sure, let's go with what you say.
These instructions were given in varies forms, until God decided to write them into the minds of His true followers. Thus, there are no interventions or interpretations by the human being, which can change these instructions, even though they try.
Yet, there are different interpretations by humans. Why do you deny this? Plenty of people say God told them directly...and yet they disagree with each other. Did God all them different things?
This is why I claim that there is Christianity and True Christianity, which both are quite different from each other.
How do you know that you are "True Christian" (trademark)? The earliest forms of Christianity contained among them docetism, among other beliefs. Maybe that was the "true" one, and what you have now is the false one?
While, culture is something that people themselves start. It can be their way of living, depending on circumstances and what type of area they are living in and many other factors.
Is this something distinct from religion? From true religion?
Religion comes from a single entity,
The Hindus of India or the practitioners of Shinto in Japan might disagree with you. Who are you to restrict religion to monotheism?
and everyone has the right to practice it on their own, without any outside influence.
...so potentially without influences like say...the various Christian Churches, or the Bible?
There is no such place as a hell!
Your Bible disagrees with you.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell
It is mentioned ad nauseum.
This is clearly outlined in Revelation 21 of the bible.
"Revelation" and "clear" do not belong in the same sentence, unless one is saying "Revelation is not clear".
If your Bible is so clear, so transparent, so easily understood...why then are there so many Christians (who you say are not True Christians) who have apparently misunderstood?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #52

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 38 by FWI]
Yet, you seem to suggest that all (who claim to be Christian) are correct, because each group thinks they are.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that what Sally thinks of this is similar to me: she does not think they are all correct (what FWI claims of Sally), but rather, that many/all Christian groups make various claims, many of which are in conflict with one another, and yet all point to the same holy book as justification for these beliefs...and as such, with her and I being outsiders to the entire umbrella religion, we cannot tell which one of these denominations is correct, and which ones aren't. Indeed, the fact of the conflict suggests the possibility that all self professed Christians are wrong.
The Christ clearly reveals that his true followers will be a "little flock" and not numbered in the hundreds of millions. Where, this "little flock" will come from the time of the Christ, until the end of man's rule on this earth. The Christ also stated that many are called, but few are chosen…So, your premise is non-biblical.
Again, you use the word clear, as if this is all unambiguous. Even if Christ did indeed say this, what of the question this raises: what does this say about a God who creates billions of humans, but allows the vast majority of them to die, to be completely destroyed?
What I see from your attitude regarding True Christians and not True Christians is that it raises an air of elitism. Surely a loving wise god wouldn't want his True followers to get such big heads?
I am not a Christian, as you understand one! I attend no religious gatherings, nor do I receive my understandings from men.
Please tell us then where you get your "understandings"? Is it a certain volume of books called the Holy Bible? Or something else?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #53

Post by SallyF »

For further examples of biblical superstition, members are invited to examine the Jehovah and the Magic Box thread.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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Post #54

Post by FWI »

[Replying to post 36 by Zzyzx]
Zzyzx wrote:“True God� and “True Christianity� are matters of OPINION. No one has a copyright or authorization to decide the matter except for themselves.


You seem to be missing the point! When something is true, there can be no opinion related to it, which can alter its truth…This is clearly outlined in the sciences. Hence, opinions are human traits and these opinions cannot determine who the True God is and what true Christianity is. God is the only one who can determine what is true about Himself. Where, the Christ has the authority to determine true Christianity.

A perfect example of this is human hierarchy. It doesn't really matter how many people are lined up in order of authority, they all point to the "single" and ultimate authority of any group, organization or country.

Hence, knowing the True God and His instructions can only come from God or His Son, not from opinions…
Zzyzx wrote:Regarding why anyone would reject the promise of heaven: It is rational to reject promises that cannot be shown to be truthful and accurate. People can promise anything – delivering is another matter. "Take my word for it (or his or this book)" isn't convincing to many.


So, what you seem to be saying is that humankind should have no desire to live in a better world or to exist without pain, suffering, hatred, hunger, diseases and the many other ills of human existence. Even, the history books tells us that man has been unable or unwilling to solve these problems. It only seems reasonable that hope needs to be looked for beyond the natural sources…Or, as you seem to suggest: Don't look for it at all, just accept reality. I reject this concept…
Zzyzx wrote:A wise person is likely to reject a promise of wealth 'after you die' in return for investment now, but many accept the promise of heaven (or 'salvation') after you die in return for worship (and perhaps donations).


So, what you seem to be claiming is that those who invest wisely are: well wise! And, those who don't are not…I don't understand this position, but I agree.

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Re: Heathen Superstitions

Post #55

Post by 1213 »

rikuoamero wrote: The Roman Catholic Church, the largest denomination of Christianity, teaches that it is the literal flesh and blood of Christ that is consumed during Mass
Why should I think Roman Catholic Church is higher than Jesus and the Bible? I prefer what Jesus taught.
rikuoamero wrote:So why then the consumption of the wafer and wine, whether a metaphorical or literal flesh and blood, during Mass? What's the point of it?
Jesus said:

He received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, "Take this, and share it among yourselves, for I tell you, I will not drink at all again from the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God comes." He took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in memory of me."
Luke 22:17-19

IT should be done in memory of Jesus. It is the “blood� and “body� that was used to seal the new Covenant. In previous Covenant it was done by blood and body of animal sacrifice. In this new covenant wine and bread are the things that seal the deal. When people take them in memory of Jesus, they do it also in memory of that new covenant that was done through Jesus.

Jesus didn’t teach that the wine and bread turns into his flesh and blood. Wine and bread were just the “blood� and “body� of new Covenant. If people take them, they are taking part to that new Covenant.

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Post #56

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 54 by FWI]
It doesn't really matter how many people are lined up in order of authority, they all point to the "single" and ultimate authority of any group, organization or country.
Why is single in quotes here? Is it because you recognise that in your own country, the USA, authority is split among three branches of government, there is no one ultimate authority?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Heathen Superstitions

Post #57

Post by JJ50 »

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Christianity has a lot of unpleasant superstitions, imo!
Last edited by JJ50 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #58

Post by Zzyzx »

.
FWI wrote:
So, what you seem to be saying is that humankind should have no desire to live in a better world or to exist without pain, suffering, hatred, hunger, diseases and the many other ills of human existence.

Correction: What I am saying is humans are ill advised to seek relief from ‘pain, suffering, hatred, hunger, diseases’ etc by devoting themselves and their resources to a promise that cannot be verified as anything more than imaginary.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Post #59

Post by rikuoamero »

Zzyzx wrote: .
FWI wrote:
So, what you seem to be saying is that humankind should have no desire to live in a better world or to exist without pain, suffering, hatred, hunger, diseases and the many other ills of human existence.

Correction: What I am saying is humans are ill advised to seek relief from ‘pain, suffering, hatred, hunger, diseases’ etc by devoting themselves and their resources to a promise that cannot be verified as anything more than imaginary.
My kid sister suffered a skull fracture last week. She's doing fine now, out of the hospital and recovering at home. During her stay in hospital, for some odd reason, no-one performed a healing dance, or talked out loud asking an invisible entity for help, or sacrificed a goat on an altar.
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Heathen Superstitions

Post #60

Post by SallyF »

JJ50 wrote: [Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Christianity has a lot of unpleasant superstitions, imo!
Liberal Christians also appear to be of the opinion that Christianity has a lot of unpleasant superstitions.

That (IMO) is why they severely dilute and distort the original-sinning, planet-flooding, ethnic-cleansing, virgin-birthing, hell-bounding doctrines of their parents.


Christianity is as full of heathen superstition as any of the belief systems Christians decry as heathen superstition.


Christians provide not a scrap of evidence that their specific god/s exist, or that a verse of their "scriptures"comes from their god/s.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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