Cult Propaganda

[SallyF]

Are the writings known as the "New Testament" cult propaganda …?

Can any of the writings be shown to have emanated in any way from any version of God?

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 20 by bjs]

Believing that the Bible is the word of God is a theological conclusion, not a starting place.

The biblical Jehovah/Yahweh/Whatever is not "God".


And, start or finish, we are still only at the level of "belief".

[bjs]

[Replying to SallyF]

Is that all you wanted to say? That you don’t believe in God?

I understand that. You don’t believe in God.

Do you ever intend to make any kind of argument in this debate thread? Do you plan to support the idea that the Bible is “cult propaganda,� or at least explain what you mean by the phrase? Do you simply want to preach your belief, or do you eventually want to make a reasoned argument?

[Zzyzx]

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The Bible fits definition of propaganda:

Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[2] Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations and the media can also produce propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Propaganda: 1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/propaganda

Propaganda: In general, a message designed to persuade its intended audience to think and behave in a certain manner. Thus advertising is commercial propaganda. In specific, institutionalized and systematic spreading of information and/or disinformation, usually to promote a narrow political or religious viewpoint. Originally, propaganda meant an arm of the Roman Catholic church responsible for 'de propaganda fidei,' propagation of the faith. www.businessdictionary.com/definition/propaganda.html

Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause. https://www.wordnik.com/words/propaganda

[SallyF]

Are the writings known as the "New Testament" cult propaganda …?

Tacitus described Christianity as a "pernicious cult".

If Christians can quote Tacitus as "evidence" of a human (not magical) Jesus, I can quote Tacitus as exemplifying certain near-contemporary opinion.

Most - if not all - the numerous belief systems that today declare themselves Christian, fit most - if not all - the definitions of "cult".

All of these will do for the OP:

noun
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:
the physical fitness cult.
the object of such devotion.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cult

When it comes to the almost innumerable squabbling Christianities today (all of whom are right in their evidence-free beliefs) I see no reason today to adopt an opinion that differs from that of Tacitus.

The New Testament writings fit most - if not all - the definitions of propaganda.


All of these will do for the OP:

noun
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.
Roman Catholic Church.
a committee of cardinals, established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, having supervision over foreign missions and the training of priests for these missions.
a school (College of Propaganda) established by Pope Urban VIII for the education of priests for foreign missions.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/propaganda?s=t

And - for the second part of the OP …

Not a verse, not a word, of the Christian-Jewish writings is EVER shown to have emanated from ANY version of "God", and no amount of "define what you mean by …" diversion and distraction is ever going to change that.

[bjs]

Tacitus described Christianity as a "pernicious cult".

If Christians can quote Tacitus as "evidence" of a human (not magical) Jesus, I can quote Tacitus as exemplifying certain near-contemporary opinion.

Out of curiosity, where did Tacitus write this? It’s not in the Annals, and I was unaware that he commented on Christianity anywhere else.

Most - if not all - the numerous belief systems that today declare themselves Christian, fit most - if not all - the definitions of "cult".

All of these will do for the OP:

noun
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:
the physical fitness cult.
the object of such devotion.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cult

Yes, if we are using the traditional (as opposed to pop culture) definition of “cult,� then every religion has a cultic aspect. Christianity, like many other religions, is not just a cult. It also has moral, social and ecclesiastical aspects. But certainly every religion includes worship of some kind.

The New Testament writings fit most - if not all - the definitions of propaganda.

Calling it propaganda is somewhat problematic since that term would be anachronistic. The concept of propaganda did not exist when the NT was written. However, if we are willing to be a little loose with the definition, then virtually every document written prior to 400 AD, including the NT, could in a sense be called propaganda. The idea of objective writing simply didn’t exist at that time. All documents were written to convince people of something.

[Goose]

However, if we are willing to be a little loose with the definition, then virtually every document written prior to 400 AD, including the NT, could in a sense be called propaganda. The idea of objective writing simply didn’t exist at that time. All documents were written to convince people of something.

Exactly, bjs. All one need do is read a sampling of texts from the ancient world and it becomes quite apparent authors wrote with a bias and the intention of promoting a particular point of view.

A few examples from biographical works of the time:

• â€�To set forth the full power of this man's intelligence and virtue, both in the administration which he exercised at Rome and in the conduct of great wars both domestic and foreign, is a subject for competition in speech and essay, that men may win renown by treating it well. I myself shall relate his achievements, so that all can know the truth.â€� – Nicolaus of Damascus, Life of Augustus
  
  �Meanwhile this book, intended to do honour to Agricola, my father-in-law, will, as an expression of filial regard, be commended, or at least excused.� – Tacitus, Agricola
  
  �It is the life of Alexander the king, and of Caesar, who overthrew Pompey, that I am writing in this book, and the multitude of the deeds to be treated is so great that I shall make no other preface than to entreat my readers, in case I do not tell of all the famous actions of these men, nor even speak exhaustively at all in each particular case, but in epitome for the most part, not to complain. For it is not Histories that I am writing, but Lives; and in the most illustrious deeds there is not always a manifestation of virtue or vice, nay, a slight thing like a phrase or a jest often makes a greater revelation of character than battles when thousands fall, or the greatest armaments, or sieges of cities. Accordingly, just as painters get the likenesses in their portraits from the face and the expression of the eyes, wherein the character shows itself, but make very little account of the other parts of the body, so I must be permitted to devote myself rather to the signs of the soul in men, and by means of these to portray the life of each, leaving to others the description of their great contests.� – Plutarch, Life of Alexander

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 25 by bjs]

All documents were written to convince people of something.

Biblical writings are often passed off as "scripture", the "Word of the capital G God" - without a shred of proof that such a claim even begins to be anything other than false.

Cult propaganda may be written to convince people that it's not cult propaganda.

Quite obviously cult propaganda can be very effective.

The way to demonstrate that the Christian-Jewish sectarian literature is not cult propaganda is to demonstrate that even just a single verse of it came in any way at all from "God".

Quite straightforward really.

[Zzyzx]

.

However, if we are willing to be a little loose with the definition, then virtually every document written prior to 400 AD, including the NT, could in a sense be called propaganda. The idea of objective writing simply didn’t exist at that time. All documents were written to convince people of something.

Exactly, bjs. All one need do is read a sampling of texts from the ancient world and it becomes quite apparent authors wrote with a bias and the intention of promoting a particular point of view.

I agree -- bias and propaganda.

NOW, why should the Bible bias and propaganda be given any special consideration?

[JehovahsWitness]

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The Bible fits definition of propaganda:

Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[2] Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations and the media can also produce propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Propaganda: In general, a message designed to persuade its intended audience to think and behave in a certain manner. Thus advertising is commercial propaganda. In specific, institutionalized and systematic spreading of information and/or disinformation, usually to promote a narrow political or religious viewpoint. ...
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/propaganda.html

I do not agree that the bible fits the definition of propaganda. It is objective, balanced and truthful and constantly appeals to its readers to use reason (make "rational response") warning against the dangers off simply following one's emotion.

It does not contain any disinformation.


JW

[SallyF]

.
The Bible fits definition of propaganda:

Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[2] Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations and the media can also produce propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Propaganda: In general, a message designed to persuade its intended audience to think and behave in a certain manner. Thus advertising is commercial propaganda. In specific, institutionalized and systematic spreading of information and/or disinformation, usually to promote a narrow political or religious viewpoint. ...
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/propaganda.html

I do not agree that the bible fits the definition of propaganda. It is objective, balanced and truthful and constantly appeals to its readers to use reason (make "rational response") and warns against the dangers off simply following ones emotion.

It does not contain any disinformation.


JW

You bolded ONE phrase only to not agree with.

There were many more.

Propaganda: In general, a message designed to persuade its intended audience to think and behave in a certain manner.

You know, the sort of material published by certain religious organisations trying to persuade folks to think and behave in a certain manner.