If Jesus was wrong,

[Elijah John]

IF Jesus was wrong about predicting his own "2nd coming of Christ", what are the implications of his mistake on this matter, and what can be salvaged of the Christian religion?

In particular, in reference to his apparent mistake in predicting his return in the lifetime of his own apostles, Matthew 16.28.

Please note, this particular OP is not about whether my or the skeptics interpretation of Matthew 16.28 and similar verses is correct, but rather for the sake of argument and for the sake of this topic, let's assume that we are correct, and Jesus did not return when he said he would.

Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

So, for debate:

1) IF Jesus was wrong on this matter, what are the implications to Christianity?

2) And IF Jesus was wrong on this matter, what if anything can be salvaged of the Christian religion?

And again please remember, "but Jesus was NOT wrong" is really not an answer for this particular thread. There are plenty of other threads on which to make that case.

[Imprecise Interrupt]

...But I do not see how the quote I provided has anything to do with time frame. What it does do is show that Jesus did not associate Moses and Elijah with any kingdom. Instead he associates Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with the kingdom. So where is the kingdom in the Transfiguration?

It describes the kingdom of Heaven, what it means. Moses and Elijah being with Jesus seems to be just that, but obviously not all, only part of it.

The quote I gave was:
Matthew 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being with Jesus would have been a big clue since they are associated with the kingdom of heaven. But not Moses and Elijah, who would be symbolic of the old covenant being replaced by the new covenant in the person of Jesus the Messiah.

That John the Baptist (Elijah returned, as we have seen) is not associated with the kingdom can be seen from this.
Matthew 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

John the Baptist is not in the kingdom.

There is no kingdom in the Transfiguration pericope. Matthew 16:28 goes with Matthew 16:24-27. Be righteous because judgment is coming and it will come soon. But it didn’t.

[Elijah John]

.

1) IF Jesus was wrong on this matter, what are the implications to Christianity?

2) And IF Jesus was wrong on this matter, what if anything can be salvaged of the Christian religion?

Can we add:

3) If the words attributed to Jesus were those of someone else falsely / incorrectly attributed to him, what are the implications to Christianity?

That is a good addition. Let's go with that as # 3 question, too.

Any thoughts? Would Jesus teachings survive on their own intrinsic merits? Even if falsely or mistakenly attributed to him?

Such as love of God and neighbor?

[Tcg]

Any thoughts? Would Jesus teachings survive on their own intrinsic merits? Even if falsely or mistakenly attributed to him?

Such as love of God and neighbor?

If the words attributed to Jesus are wrong about the existence of God, and I've found no reason to think that they aren't, the phrase "love of God" is a meaningless term.


If the words attributed to Jesus are wrong about the Kingdom of God, and they undoubtedly are, there is no reason to trust them when they mention heaven. This promise:

• Matthew 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Is worse than meaningless, it is clearly false. It's nothing but a false promise to bring comfort to suffering people. Comfort that will never be realized as promised.


The meek are also being comforted with false promises when we consider this somewhat famous promise given to con the poor into joining the Jesus crowd:

• Matthew 5:5
  
  Blessed are the meek,
  for they will inherit the earth.

If the words attributed to Jesus are wrong about God and heaven, and there is no reason to believe they are not, they represent little more than a con spun to gain followers.



Tcg