Do demons exist? Can that be tested?

[John Human]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

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[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 20 by John Human]

Dr. NoGod's implication that conformity to reductionist materialism is "legitimate,"

It is legitimate because it works to explain nature and the real world we live in. It is that simple. Demons, on the other hand, have never been shown to exist and do not explain anything in the real world.

Dr. Nogods would seem to want to arbitrarily dismiss these accounts as not "legitimate."

Yes ... that would be correct. Until you, or anyone else, can show that demons actually exist then any accounts of their actions can be dismissed. It isn't arbitrary.

[John Human]

[Replying to post 20 by John Human]

Dr. NoGod's implication that conformity to reductionist materialism is "legitimate,"

It is legitimate because it works to explain nature and the real world we live in. It is that simple. Demons, on the other hand, have never been shown to exist and do not explain anything in the real world.

Dr. Nogods would seem to want to arbitrarily dismiss these accounts as not "legitimate."

Yes ... that would be correct. Until you, or anyone else, can show that demons actually exist then any accounts of their actions can be dismissed. It isn't arbitrary.

The accounts of the demons, given in the links in post #20, are in and of themselves evidence for the existence of demons. Dr. NoGods seems to not want to read or discuss or evaluate the contents of those accounts, hence Dr. NoGod's arbitrary dismissal of the accounts as not "legitimate" -- as if Dr. NoGods could authoritatively decide what other people should think.
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[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 22 by John Human]

The accounts of the demons, given in the links in post #20, are in and of themselves evidence for the existence of demons.

They are not evidence. They are rambling descriptions of demons with absolutely nothing to demonstrate their actual existence except in your own head.

... as if Dr. NoGods could authoritatively decide what other people should think.

Think anything you like, that is none of my business or concern. But you are here on a public forum claiming that demons exist. Myself, and others who have posted here, don't believe that they exist. They have never been shown to exist in any form, and they are part of the supernatural which has never been shown to exist. So I am challenging your claim that demons exist, not pretending to tell you what to think.

[John Human]

[Replying to post 22 by John Human]

The accounts of the demons, given in the links in post #20, are in and of themselves evidence for the existence of demons.

They are not evidence. They are rambling descriptions of demons with absolutely nothing to demonstrate their actual existence except in your own head.

Ancient Demon will act:

The man who called himself Dr. NoGods no longer posts. Another man is acting. This other man was instructed to deny without discussing.

[alexxcJRO]

Ancient Demon will act:

No sir. It did not act.

It did not pay me any visit, nor did it tell you what i ate for breakfast.

It's funny how these beings proposed: gods, demons, angels, ghosts are always invisible and extremely shy.

Can't put them to test, can't film them, can't record them, can't interact with anyone other then human proposing the thing.

Almost like it points to something. What would that be? Hmmm ...

Yeahh, they are non-existent.

[John Human]

It's funny how these beings proposed: gods, demons, angels, ghosts are always invisible and extremely shy.

Well, no. Part of the problem is the pervasive mutilation of human awareness (often reinforced through mockery and intimidation) in the name of reductionist-materialist "science."

Imagine a man with his head firmly planted in a hole in the ground, loudly insisting that there is no evidence for the existence of rainbows. The man might even (ever-so-briefly) take his head out of the hole to "verify" that there is indeed no rainbow 🌈

And then he puts his head back in the hole in the ground, confident in the rightness and the ivory-tower respectability of his superior knowledge.

Another comparison: There is no way to objectively prove the existence of dreams if we rely exclusively on empirical evidence of the sort that Dr. NoGods pronounces to be "legitimate." The study and discussion of dreams always relies in part on anecdotal evidence.

_________________

[alexxcJRO]

Well, no. Part of the problem is the pervasive mutilation of human awareness (often reinforced through mockery and intimidation) in the name of reductionist-materialist "science."

Imagine a man with his head firmly planted in a hole in the ground, loudly insisting that there is no evidence for the existence of rainbows. The man might even (ever-so-briefly) take his head out of the hole to "verify" that there is indeed no rainbow 🌈

And then he puts his head back in the hole in the ground, confident in the rightness and the ivory-tower respectability of his superior knowledge.

So it’s my fault that your demon is extremely shy. It’s my fault that he won’t tell you what I ate for breakfast on 15/06/2019, my fault that he won’t visit.

Q: Seriously?!!! )))

Q: Is there a way I can falsify the hypothesis: “that your in communication with an ancient demon�?(Yes/No question)

Q: Do you have evidence in support of your claim: “that your in communication with an ancient demon�?

[John Human]

Well, no. Part of the problem is the pervasive mutilation of human awareness (often reinforced through mockery and intimidation) in the name of reductionist-materialist "science."

Imagine a man with his head firmly planted in a hole in the ground, loudly insisting that there is no evidence for the existence of rainbows. The man might even (ever-so-briefly) take his head out of the hole to "verify" that there is indeed no rainbow 🌈

And then he puts his head back in the hole in the ground, confident in the rightness and the ivory-tower respectability of his superior knowledge.

Q: Is there a way I can falsify the hypothesis: “that your in communication with an ancient demon�?(Yes/No question)

I doubt it, at least while communication between you and me is limited to this forum.

Q: Do you have evidence in support of your claim: “that your in communication with an ancient demon�?

Yes, as I already pointed out, the two links I gave in post #20 provide evidence. Anecdotal evidence has limited value when doing scientific experimentation, but it does have its place. For example, the scientific study of dreams is impossible without anecdotal evidence.

Regarding the links in post #20, there are two separate issues that could be tested. First of all is the question of what exactly is going on, in my brain and in my mind, while I am typing a received communication from a demon, versus what is going on when, say, I am typing an e-mail to my sister, or typing a summary of the original May 1776 U.S. independence resolution, or typing creative fiction (something that I have never done as an adult), or writing a song (something that I have indeed done several times), or writing about past personal experiences.

The second question is how to evaluate the contents of the received communications that I linked to in post #20. Can they plausibly be dismissed as a fabrication? Am I capable of or likely to invent the range of demon stories that I have shared? There is quite a lot of material there. If one posits the hypothesis that I fabricated the stories, the question of motivation comes up, which brings up the question of character assessment.

Beyond that is the "do it yourself" question -- are you or others able to have the personal experience of communicating (via "voices in your head") with demons (or trees or deceased ancestors or living humans)?

Perhaps it is safer and more practical to try to communicate with a deceased ancestor. I have recorded and posted online the stories of dozens and dozens of ancestors, some of them well-known or famous. (My academic training as a historian is rooted in my childhood interest in researching my family tree.) Communicating with ancestors is a natural human ability that that can be done by presumably anyone who isn't crippled by the cultural taboo about "voices in your head." Simply relax and think of, say, a grandparent. Words will come into your mind. That is your grandparent. (Of course anybody with a skeptical "show it to me" attitude will resist the quick conclusion that this is actually a grandparent, but you could increase your database by trying to communicate with all four grandparents.)

For anybody trying to do this, a few words to the wise: When communicating with deceased ancestors, it is important to always be respectful, and never be judgmental, especially when you know that the ancestor has done things that you know were wrong. Secondly, while demons are capable of using "visual" images to communicate, deceased ancestors are not. And while demons are forbidden to lie directly, ancestors can do so if they have the motivation.

Ancient Demon will now act:

"Ancient Demon supposes that the thought of communicating with an ancient demon is intimidating. Young demons are able to communicate. Ancient Demon is aware that John Human encourages young demon companions to communicate as much as possible with other humans. Ancient Demon believes that, if the man Alex or another reader of this communication wishes, a young demon could communicate."

[Clownboat]

When I lived in Bali, I couldn't help observing the pervasive evidence of belief in demons. And of course demons put in an appearance in the Bible, not to mention in the gargoyles of old cathedrals.

On the other hand, modern science would seem to categorically reject the existence of demons, without a clear reason why, unless it has to do with the axiomatic presuppositions of science's governing ideology of reductionist materialism.

Question: Do demons exist? What evidence is there, for or against?

--

Demons have never been shown to exist.
Only mental illness has.

People that hear voices should probably be seeking medical help.

It is difficult to describe what it is like to hear voices, particularly if you’ve never heard voices yourself. People have described them as the voice of someone standing right next to them, or as voices that are thought-like. Some persons have reported experiencing a combination of both.4 The voices heard can be critical, complementary or neutral. They may give you commands that are potentially harmful. They may even engage you in conversation.

It's also common for people to hear voices as if they are thoughts entering their mind from somewhere outside themselves. This is not the same as a suddenly inspired idea, which people usually recognise as coming from themselves. These thoughts are not their own and would seem to come from outside their own consciousness, like telepathy.

Hearing voices is still considered by psychiatry as an auditory hallucination and as a symptom of conditions such as schizophrenic disorders, manic depression and psychosis. Traumatic life experiences
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/h/hearing-voices

I'm still open to ancient demon or one of his young demons to come speak with me, but I personally find it more likely that mental illness is at play and not actual demons. The reality is that this 'demon' is all too human in its postings here, much like how a human would be. Here is to hoping though.

There is a stigma to hearing voices. If a person (generic) is able to convince themself that the voice is real, they avoid the stigma because they are hearing 'real' voices in their head compared to everyone else.

[Swami]

[Replying to post 29 by Clownboat]

Hearing voices should not automatically be labelled as a mental illness. I would only apply that label if the voices are established as hallucinations as opposed to telepathy. Other reasons to apply the label is if or when someone starts behaving unreasonably, unable to function normally in their daily living, or are a threat to themselves or others.

20 years from now, doctors will look back and realize that they've misdiagnosed many as suffering from a psychosis when in reality, these people may've really had undeveloped psychic abilities that very few can understand. Western medicine and science do not any good avenues to explore psychic abilities; anyone who comes out to a professional claiming to have these abilities are labelled as mentally ill from the start.