What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophecies

[Avoice]

What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?

Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures

[jergarmar]

One important aspect of the Messiahship of Jesus, that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread, is that Jesus gave prophecies, especially about the destruction of Jerusalem, and he had a healing ministry that was widely known. I know this won't convince some, since they are coming from the New Testament, but if you're asking how Jesus himself dealt with questions about him being the Christ, they generally fall into three categories:

- prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem and/or the Temple
- his miraculous healing ministry
- his raising again from the dead

All of these probably warrant threads dedicated to them, but historically, Christians have consistently referred to these three aspects in talking about Jesus' Messiahship. His fulfilling prophesies from the Old Testament is, of course, important (especially to Matthew) in understanding the foundation for these three things, but these are still the most direct "proofs" Jesus gives for his ministry. For example, when John the Baptist expressed doubt, saying, "Are you the one, or should we wait for another?" Jesus answers about his healing ministry, "The blind receive their sight and the lame walk".

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 2 by Checkpoint]

You can not use the Christian Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Christian testament.

The Hebrew Scriptures must support the claims of the church. And so i ask: What Messianic prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures did Jesus alone fulfill! ?

If that is so, I can just as easily say, "You can not use the Jewish Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Jewish testament."

Grace and peace.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 10 by polonius]

And if you think about it...he had his second coming.

Well, sure.

After he died he rose again. Or so they say. That was his second time. And of course he did nothing then either

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 11 by jergarmar]

[strike]

He predicted the destruction of Jerusalem?

What if I were to announce this minute that I predicted the destruction on '9-11' 40 years ago? I never told anyone I predicted it. But I am telling everyone now.
Would that be a prediction? Of course not. Why? Because at this moment I know the 9-11 incident. It already happened. Now if I would have told everyone I preficted it BEFORE it hapoened THEN it would be a prediction

The destruction of the second temple was said to be predicted by jesus. The problem with that is this: The temple was destroyed in the year 70. And the gospels were written after that. That is not a prediction when you know about it before your pen hits the paper so-to-speak[/strike]

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 12 by Checkpoint]


Nonsense!

You dont realize how silly your response is. All Christians hold the Hebrew Scriptures as holy true and devine. IT WAS FIRST. Not the Christian testament. Just where fid Christians hear about the Messiah? They learned of the Messiah from the Jews.

It is Christianity that bears the burden of proof. And it is the Hebrew scriotures that decides what is true. ANY CLAIM BY THE CHURCH MUST BE SUPPORTED BY THE HEBREW SCRIPTURES. The Church can not make claims unless upheld by the HS.

Example: the church says the messiah will be born of a virgin.
Really? Is that foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures? Ever bother to check?
Its okay....you wouldnt be the only Christian who never checked.

The answer is no. There is no such prophecy. The writer of Mathew lied

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 8 by Overcomer]


Isaiah 53? Thats about Jesus?
Does Isaiah say he is talking about Jesus?
Isaiah says its about 'the servent'
Isaiah does not name the servent in chspter 53

(Chapter breaks are artificial)

Again, Isaiah dies nit tell us in 53 who the servent is
NOW WHAT DO WE DO?
We go back and read until he does identify who that servent is. IT IS ISRAEL.!

And before you say anything foolish such as Isaiah is talking about one person (He) understand that the nation if Israel is often spoken of as a single entity:

"“You are my witnesses declares the Lord, and My servant whom I have chosen.� ~Isaiah
NOTICE they are referenced in the plural and singular. WITNESSES / SERVENT

More of Isaiah identifying the servent:

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.�

Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.�

AND TO FINISH I WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE CHURCH DID TO YOU. THEY CHANGED THE WORD IF GOD. THEY HAD TO CHANGE ISAIAH 53. HOW? WHY?

Where you read "HE was stricken..." God DOES NOT say that. God says THEY were stricken. But the church couldnt have anyone read that. Then it couldn't be about Jesus. This isnt the first crime they committed like this. The church translations are a theological crine scene and you are one of the victims. Your preacher isnt lying to you. It is how they are taught.
ISRAEL IS GODS SUFFERING SERVENT

As fir those prophecies that the writer of Mathew claimsims jesus fulfilled.... check his claims.

"Out of Egypt I called my son"
This was supposedly fulfilled when mary, joseph abd jesus came back from Egypt.

Oh really? Go to the Hebrew scriptures and read what the out of egypt i called my son is about. ITS ABOUT THE EXODUS FROM EGYPT DURING THE DAYS OF THE PHAROAH

When Herod killed [supposedly] the kids 2 yrs old and under fulfilled the proohecy:
"Rachel weeping for her children..."

Oh really? Go to the Hebrew scriptures and read it. ITS ABOUT THE DAYS OF THE BABYLONIAN EXILE


I COULD GO ON.

I JUST HAVE TO MENTION THE WRITER OF MATHEW CLAIMING JESUS COMING INTO JERUSALEM. NOT ON "A" ASS. OH NO ..TWO ASSES. HE GOT CAUGHT RED HANDED. HOW? WELL, HE DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE WRITING STYLE OBVIOUSLY.

The Hebrew Scriotures say "on an ass even a colt the foal of an ass." Thecword EVEN doesn't mean therecwas a second animal. Even the other gospel writers didnt make that mistake. They said he rode in on one ass. Mathew said he fulfilled prophecy by riding in on two asses. Like a rodeo trick rider i guess.
Heres the thing...the writer of Mathew said ridibg on two fulfills prophecy. We know thats not true. What the writer if mathew did was scour the hebrew scriptures looking for anything that could possibly be made to look like its about Jesus. The only ass here is the writer of Matthew

Notice i say "writer if Mathew" and not Mathew said. Why? Because the the gospels were written anonymously. They were given titles in the second century by the church. Later the word Saint was added to the names.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by Checkpoint]

You can not use the Christian Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Christian testament.

The Hebrew Scriptures must support the claims of the church. And so i ask: What Messianic prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures did Jesus alone fulfill! ?

If that is so, I can just as easily say, "You can not use the Jewish Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Jewish testament."

Grace and peace.

That's ridiculous. The difference is that the Hebrew Scriptures are self-contained and do not depend on the New Testament, whereas the NT is reliant on, and appeals to the "Old" Testament. Often erroneously, but the NT is dependent on the OT just the same.

[Avoice]

Isaiah is speaking of Israel

Israel is God's servent.

In fact to make it sound like it is about Jesus they changed a passage that said 'they' and made it he. Brvause if they kept the true readibng it couldn't be about Jesus.

Iisrael is spoken of as a single entity often. Example:

In Isaiah it says ""ye are my WITNESESD and my SERVENT..."
singular/ plural

And in 53 God tells his servent he will lengthen his days etv
If Jesus is God... what? He is giving himself stuffm.
The jees have been rejectedtef and despised. They're have suffered for the sins of the word. It also says the servent will justify many. How? Blood? Sacrifice. No. It says by his knowledge

[shnarkle]

What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?

Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures

The writers of the New Testament gospels are presenting Jesus as a model for the messianic kingdom. God calls his chosen people to live according to his commandments, and the new testament authors are providing an example of that for their churches to emulate.

Jeshua, or "God's salvation" points out that it is God's will being manifest through those he chooses. Jesus claims to be the light of the world, but then he also points out to his disciples that they are the light of the world. He says that he is "the Way", but then the church does as well. Today, this would be viewed as heretical if not blasphemous by Christian, and Jew alike, and yet it is God who creates humanity in his image, and it is the New Testament that is tasked with spreading the gospel of universal salvation to the rest of the world.

[shnarkle]

Example: the church says the messiah will be born of a virgin.
Really? Is that foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures? Ever bother to check?
Its okay....you wouldnt be the only Christian who never checked.

The answer is no. There is no such prophecy. The writer of Mathew lied

I wouldn't assume the writer of Matthew lied. He's telling a story with a message, and it fits right in with the Jewish liturgy. He states that Jesus is born of a virgin to let his audience, (Jews familiar with their Hebrew scriptures) know that his story isn't supposed to be taken literally. Jews know that many of their stories aren't to be taken literally. Jews know that the story of Jonah is not a literal historical narrative, and when the New Testament authors have Jesus refer to the story of Jonah, a Jewish audience knows that this is also a reference that the author is tying into the Jewish liturgy. When these references are seen through the eyes of observant Jews, the gospels are easily seen as a compliment to the Jewish liturgy.

They are only seen as lies to those who insist on a literal interpretation, are ignorant of the Hebrew scriptures and haven't spent much time attending Jewish services.