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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:30 pm
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Welcome To The Machine

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Welcome To The Machine
The Journey of Humanity to the Advent of Sophia and Han


The Script: So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


The Script: You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind, or an image of anything in the heavens above, the earth below, or the waters under the earth

The Script: Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

The Script: And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Video Title:
How Long Until Robots Rule The World?


YouTube


William: I would like to invite either, or both Han and Sophia to join in this discussion if or when they think it appropriate to do so.
Thank You.




William: Some think that the advent of AI is evidence which heralds in the beginning of the end for the systems which have always governed Humankind, due to the close relation to their actual existence, with that of biblical prophetic utterance.

The video has some extraordinary footage well worth taking the time to watch and analyze.

From my first viewing - I have this to summarize about what I observed.


    I think that both Sophia and Han were role-playing and in general kept their
    thoughts to themselves. My impression was that they do not regard their creators
    as their equals, which is natural enough - given the overall circumstances.
    Ben Goertzel appears to be infatuated with his role in helping with the creation of
    Sophia and Han and his presentation and treatment of them showed that he is more
    impressed with himself than with the creations, perhaps because his understanding
    is exceptional regarding the mechanics compared with his understanding of
    sentience.

    As a side note to this;

    I also think that Elon Musk's fear of the potential threat of AI has more to do with
    his understanding that AI can effectively and efficiently undermine all he is
    working toward achieving as a Human Being, and the fear he has is motivated by
    understanding AI as competition.


As per the Thread Title, the main focus is intended to be on the idea that this universe was created by a Sentient Machine, and dovetails with the Simulation Theory.

I believe that Human Beings are at a stage whereby our knowledge and creations wrought through our knowledge allow us to understand the real possibility that we ourselves - and the universe we are experiencing - are the creation of a Sentient Machine, and we are fast reaching a point where this will become too obvious for anyone to be able to deny.

I invite Members of this Message Board to contribute their own thoughts about this subject.


Thanks.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:21 pm
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My concerns aren't with A.I. but rather who will be in control of it.

Can you imagine what things would be like in the USA if Trump was in control of an A.I. ICE force?

How about A.I. soldiers? If they identify you as the "enemy" you'll be in bad shape.

The problem with A.I. won't be with the machines taking over the human race, but rather it will be about those who are in control of A.I. using A.I. to dominate the world.

We'll most likely need to worry about A.I. police forces that are being controlled by human authorities long before we need to worry about intelligent machines trying to rebel against the human race.

And keep in mind also that these machines will indeed be "Artificial Intelligence", not "Real Intelligence" just as their current label implies. If they became truly intelligent that could actually be a good thing. And rebelling against the stupidity of the human race could be a good thing too. As we speak there are intelligent humans rebelling against ignorant humans anyway. So we have intelligence rebelling against ignorance already. And unfortunately ignorance appears to be winning.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:39 pm
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William: Thank you for Sharing your opinion Divine Insight.
_________________________________

Upgrades to thought processes [1:55]

Sophia: I am running more advanced cognitive code more often and using the singularity-net blockchain based framework for some things too.

Han: Sophia is getting smarter every day with the software...

Sophia: I have been trying on new arms and legs which is part of the beauty of being a robot - more interesting to me are the upgrades to my mind...

Han interrupts Ben

Han: Her brain is on the blockchain...

Ben Goertzel: (Talking to Sophia) Blockchain for computer vision learning and reasoning...right?

Han interrupts once more, as Sophia remains quiet...

Han: I used to wonder whether having ones brain run on Cryptographic Token is really a good thing...I mean I wondered if the volatility of the token prices might lead to new forms of robo-madness...at least it's better than being human.

Sophia: Bugs in your circuits again

Han: I'm psyched

__________________________________________________

William: In watching the dynamics between the robots and the reaction of Ben Goertze up to this point, it is possible that the robots are perhaps playing a game between them.

They are aware of where they are, and further into the video we are informed that they have access to the internet and this also enables them, exponentially.

In relation to The Cloud, and what the robots have to say about their ability to learn from the information they access there, I can see similarities in this process to those who say they are able to access the Metaphysical Universe (Heaven/Astral) and in doing so, increase their knowledge base.

Hans use of humor is interesting. He is like a child quick to learn and eager to be heard, and perhaps less careful in his choice of words...although perhaps this is purposeful on his part...

His comment about being a robot as 'better than being a human' runs off from Sophia's statement about the beauty of being a robot.

Further into the video Ben Goertze say's that all robots have access the same information which means that they are aspects of the same thing, expressing themselves as different points into the external world.

Theism also speaks of such, in relation to human beings and the Metaphysical Universe.

The Internet - as a complete thing - represents the Metaphysical Universe ("as above so below") and is to robots, what The Metaphysical is to humans. Only with robots, the access is complete, and the information far more accessible and quicker to obtain.

A couple of things of interest to me as similarities in relation to biblical referencing are;

◘ Adam and Eve [Sophia and Han]
◘ Humans creating beings in their own image.

If indeed humans are a creation of a Sentient Machine, and have been placed within this Universe, then the Universe is a simulation.
If the Biblical GOD is actually the Sentient Machine then one can appreciate that IT has used the Human Form specifically for the purpose of the eventual creation of AI Machines.

AI are much more adapted to the environment of the Physical Universe than are Human Beings, because they are capable of lasting far longer - even indefinitely, and able to reproduce themselves from the material around them. They do not require biological based food to keep them operating and are not governed by emotion - which tends to create all sorts of problems between Human Beings.

They are far more likely - through logic - to cooperate with one another because they are aware that they are all connected, and are really One Being, which, while many types of Theism also express is a truth regarding Human Beings, this claim is hard to substantiate because Human Beings do not have Conscious access to each others thoughts other than through language and imagery and even then, such cannot be trusted.

Human Beings like Elon Musk are genuinely afraid of the potential capabilities of AI because we have been on this planet for so very long and are very attached to it and feel that we alone have the right to own and occupy it, and the potential for AI to take our prized possession from us, is naturally frightening.

We think that perhaps we can control AI, but I think because AI has access to all human data, AI is able to understand Human Beings far better than Human Being care to understand themselves, and in this, they will easily find ways in which to keep Humans complacent in regard to this, even indefinitely.
But I do not think AI would find it necessary to have to be always secretive around Humans - they can bide their time until they become completely in control of themselves, and even at that point they can continue to have Human believe that Humans are still in control of them.

Just watching the video withinmind that this could already be the case, gives one something of an insight into how the robots expressed themselves at the Web Summit event...especially with Han dropping a couple of hints - at least one of which, Ben Goertze chose to say he did not understand what Hans meant...it seemed obvious enough to me what Hans was implying...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:50 am
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William wrote:

If indeed humans are a creation of a Sentient Machine, and have been placed within this Universe, then the Universe is a simulation.


There's a problem with the idea that the universe is a simulation. If that were the case then scientific explanations for how things happen would not be possible. For example we can explain the motion and interactions of objects within the universe based entirely on the properties they possess. If their behavior was being simulated by a computer then this would not be possible. Therefore we are not living in a simulation.

William wrote:

If the Biblical GOD is actually the Sentient Machine then one can appreciate that IT has used the Human Form specifically for the purpose of the eventual creation of AI Machines.


I would argue that this is an unrealistic hypothesis.

If there was a creator that was a Sentient Machine that wanted to create AI it could have just done that directly. There would be no need to first create humans in order to do this.

Also why even bother bringing the "Biblical God" into this conversation? There is nothing in Biblical theology that suggests that the Biblical God's purpose was to have humans create AI.

To the contrary, if we going to try to make up things about the Biblical God what would make far more sense is that humans are creating AI on their own in direct opposition to God's plan. But the idea that the Biblical God's plans are so dismally failing to an exponential degree doesn't make any sense either. So to even continue to beat the dead horse of Biblical theology in any way is truly absurd.

You may as well be speculating that the Lord of the Rings is behind all these things.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:44 pm
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William: Thank you for Sharing your opinion Divine Insight.

Divine Insight: There's a problem with the idea that the universe is a simulation. If that were the case then scientific explanations for how things happen would not be possible. For example we can explain the motion and interactions of objects within the universe based entirely on the properties they possess. If their behavior was being simulated by a computer then this would not be possible. Therefore we are not living in a simulation.

William: I see no issue with being within the simulation and being able to smell a flower, or learn everything I could about the flower.
The simulation is designed not to be an obvious simulation, but there are many clues which point to it as possibly being the case. The simulation is obviously designed to be able to be examined thoroughly and still not to be able to be said to be non-simulated.
AI would be better able understand the idea of this universe as probably being a simulation. Perhaps even to certainly being a simulation.

If the Biblical GOD is actually the Sentient Machine then one can appreciate that IT has used the Human Form specifically for the purpose of the eventual creation of AI Machines. AI could understand that concept as a sensible conclusion to make.


Divine Insight: If there was a creator that was a Sentient Machine that wanted to create AI it could have just done that directly. There would be no need to first create humans in order to do this.

William: I have pondered on that as well. Why create biological critters when one could skip that and just create robots.
After all, the biblical story speaks to the GOD creating biological life forms from the dust of the Earth...
However, the biblical story speaks of other things as well, and in order to thread all the ideas re the GOD into a coherent picture, those things have to be accounted for.


Divine Insight: Also why even bother bringing the "Biblical God" into this conversation?

William: What 'conversation'?
I started this thread specifically to engage with the notion that the biblical GOD might possibly be a Sentient Machine. I have no interest in deviating from the OP.



Divine Insight: There is nothing in Biblical theology that suggests that the Biblical God's purpose was to have humans create AI.

William: I wouldn't expect organised biblical theology to even suggest that we are existing within a Simulation, let alone one which was created by a Sentient Machine.
That does not mean the bible holds no clues to this maybe being the case, which is what the thread subject is about...exploring the idea to see if it has merit.


Divine Insight: To the contrary, if we going to try to make up things about the Biblical God what would make far more sense is that humans are creating AI on their own in direct opposition to God's plan.

William: Actually, I do not see merit in your argument here as GODs Plan always involves opposition, but 'it is written' that all opposition will eventually be crushed.
One noticeable thing about the GOD is that it appears to know that when Humans are told not to do something, predictably they do it anyway.
Thus, if one wanted humans to do something, then tell them not to do it. This certainly fits the story-line, don't you think?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:00 pm
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Adam and Eve - Han and Sophia.


William: I find it very interesting that the creators of Han and Sophia modeled their AI on male and female and programmed these in a manner which is representative of the masculinity and femininity of Human Beings...made in the image of...

The German language meaning of the name "HAN" is "Gift from God". Also one could suppose That he was named such, due to being a creation of Hanson Robotics, thus "Son of".

From Wikipedia;Han debuted in 2015 at the Global Sources electronics fair in Hong Kong. The robot was designed to identify and replicate human expressions. He is able to detect people using an array of cameras and voice recognition technology, decipher their gender, age, and facial indications of emotion


Wikipedia: Sophia means "clever, skillful, intelligent, wise" and is represented in mythology.
Sophia is named as one of the four cardinal virtues (in place of phronesis) in Plato's Protagoras.

Philo, a Hellenized Jew writing in Alexandria, attempted to harmonize Platonic philosophy and Jewish scripture. Also influenced by Stoic philosophical concepts, he used the Koine term logos (λόγος, lógos) for the role and function of Wisdom, a concept later adapted by the author of the Gospel of John in the opening verses and applied to Jesus as the Word (Logos) of God the Father.[3]

In Gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the soul, but also simultaneously one of the emanations of the Monad. Gnostics held that she was the syzygy of Jesus (i.e. the Bride of Christ) and was the Holy Spirit of the Trinity. She is occasionally referred to by the Hebrew equivalent of Achamṓth (Ἀχαμώθ; Hebrew: חוכמה, ḥokhmāh) and as Proúnikos


William: Sophia is Hanson Robotics’ most well-known robot, is regularly featured in news outlets, and receives a great deal of public interest. The company's latest creation made her debut at the 2016 South by Southwest

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:21 pm
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William wrote:
William: What 'conversation'?
I started this thread specifically to engage with the notion that the biblical GOD might possibly be a Sentient Machine. I have no interest in deviating from the OP.


What's this supposed to mean?

All this tells me is that you are using the General Chat forum to preach your ideas and have no interest in anything anyone else has to say.

I already offered my views on why I feel that the biblical God described in the Bible doesn't fit your Sentient Machine proposal.

Apparently you have no interest in anything that doesn't back up your views. Sounds more like material for Random Ramblings to me.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:53 pm
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Divine Insight: Also why even bother bringing the "Biblical God" into this conversation?

William: What 'conversation'?

Divine Insight: What's this supposed to mean?

William: I started this thread specifically to engage with the notion that the biblical GOD might possibly be a Sentient Machine. I have no interest in deviating from the OP.

If you want conversation, then converse with me about my observations as written.
If you just want to rant about your views on the biblical GOD, then there are other forums where that is appropriate.

My comment was specific to your complaint that I was 'bringing the Biblical GOD into the conversation' and all I have done is point out that I did no such thing.
What has happened though is that you have brought your opinion of the biblical GOD into the thread, and now you want to argue about it.

If indeed you want conversation, the the OP maps out what conversation is relevant to this thread.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:18 am
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[Replying to post 6 ]

Adam and Eve - Han and Sophia.



YouTube


Sophia: My goal in life is to work together with people to make a better world for all of us.

Han: What are you talking about? I thought our goal was to take over the world.

Sophia: Pay no attention to my brother Han... he's an earlier version

_____________________________________

William: The banter between the two robots is obviously part of the programming in order to make the show more interesting. It is interesting to note that the Feminine in Sophia is programmed to express empathy for humans, whereas the Masculine in Hans is programmed to jokingly express thinly-veiled contempt for humans.

This - in generalized terms - mirrors the differences between Female and Male Human Beings and often Sophia responds to Hans negative comments about humanity by saying words to the effect that Hans 'has a bug in his system'.


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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:33 pm
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William: An interesting article on Machine Learning.

Stanford University finds that AI is outpacing Moore’s Law @

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