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Wootah
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:56 am  Slavery Reply with quote

Does anyone else think slavery is a universal?

If it is a universal then addressing it would be a valid topic in the Bible right?

Hierarchy is universal as well, there will always be a top and bottom. The best we can hope for is a bottom with tvs and fridges and microwaves and cell phones right?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:49 am
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Wootah wrote:

Does anyone else think slavery is a universal?

If it is a universal then addressing it would be a valid topic in the Bible right?

Hierarchy is universal as well, there will always be a top and bottom. The best we can hope for is a bottom with tvs and fridges and microwaves and cell phones right?


Slavery was a Given when the biblical texts were written. The problem isn't really slavery, but how one treats their slaves. This is what the biblical authors tried to point out.

Some scholars have pointed out that Israel in Egypt weren't really slaves as much as they were public servants; government employees. if one is the slave of a high ranking official, and treated with respect while reaping the benefits of such a wealthy lifestyle, how are they worse off than someone working a dead end minimum wage job with no benefits, and no possibility of advancement?

People just naturally assume that slavery is equivalent to daily beatings until one just dies at the hands of their brutal task masters. This just simply isn't the case. Just because one slave owner treats their slaves inhumanely doesn't mean they all do. The Mosaic law has stiff penalties for those who mistreat their slaves as well.

The Mosaic law points out that a slave is there to make them money so the better they treat them, the more money they will make. The same goes for an employee today.

Slavery could very well come back into vogue today if an economic collapse were to occur. What would you do if the banking system suddenly collapsed? You now have no money in the bank, your employer can't pay you. There is nothing in place to take care of the millions upon millions of people who are now slowly starving. You will now work for food, and a roof over your head; that's what you'll do.

In the ancient world as today, when two tribes are competing for resources, they're going to eventually clash. To the victor go the spoils, and the loser has no alternative but to seek refuge elsewhere or work for their newly adopted tribe.

Today people work for wages which are nothing more than a glorified allowance. Under the Mosaic law, once their term was up, they could walk away with money in their pockets as well as some livestock which were prized possessions back then. What kind of a severance package do most people get nowadays that compares to that?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:10 pm
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[Replying to post 11]

shnarkle: In the ancient world as today, when two tribes are competing for resources, they're going to eventually clash. To the victor go the spoils, and the loser has no alternative but to seek refuge elsewhere or work for their newly adopted tribe.

Today people work for wages which are nothing more than a glorified allowance. Under the Mosaic law, once their term was up, they could walk away with money in their pockets as well as some livestock which were prized possessions back then. What kind of a severance package do most people get nowadays that compares to that?


William: In a nut shell, what you are describing are the fruits of systems of disparity. Human Beings compete for resource rather than use resource for the benefit of all.

The holy writ of cultural script is designed around concepts which formulate beliefs germinated in the soil of disparity.

Unless - although unlikely - Humans transform their systems into Parity, the result of the current systems of disparity will undoubtedly be mass extinction.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:37 pm
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[Replying to post 12 by William]

In the ancient world as today, the Mosaic law's regulations concerning slavery offer the best route to parity. A slave in the ancient world had their only real chance of freedom from being bought by a Jew. A Jew purchased one's freedom for them. A gentile bought a slave for life while a Jewish slave had the option of becoming a member of society after serving his term. He had to effectively pay back his purchase price by working it off. Once that was accomplished, he had the option of becoming a member of the Jewish community, or he could leave with money in his pocket, or he could choose to even remain a slave for the rest of his life. Sometimes that was the best option available.

Under the Mosaic law, a slave ate at the table of his master and ate the same food. That's parity.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:43 pm
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[Replying to post 13]

William: Parity has no system of Master/Slave and the ideal that if all the world were under the Mosaic law, then "Parity" is silly.

Even among the 10 commandments are laws which clearly derive from minds focused upon the seeds of disparity - possession and ownership...bondage to things.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:55 pm
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William wrote:

[Replying to post 13]

William: Parity has no system of Master/Slave and the ideal that if all the world were under the Mosaic law, then "Parity" is silly.

Even among the 10 commandments are laws which clearly derive from minds focused upon the seeds of disparity - possession and ownership...bondage to things.


That's just because you're hung up on labels. When two people are living at parity, it matters not a bit the labels attributed to them. An unbiased observer can view two people working in a field, then two people sitting down to a meal, then doing all sorts of other things together. Parity. The fact that one is labeled a slave while the other labeled "master" makes little effective difference if they're both out doing the exact same thing.

There was a time in this country when a slave held the enviable position of having a roof over his head, clothes on his back, a wife to sleep with, food in his belly and a lifetime of job security. Many of his so-called homeless, hungry, and half naked "free" neighbors would have gladly traded places with him in a heartbeat.

Today the slaves no longer have their homes, clothes, and food paid for, nor do they have job security. They must come up with all of this on their own, and even after they've come up with the money to purchase all of this, they still don't even own any of it. The government/taskmaster still insists that they pay for the privilege of living on the plantation. The slaves today are so completely duped that they're begging for a wall to be built around them.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:29 pm
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[Replying to post 15]

William: Parity has no system of Master/Slave and the ideal that if all the world were under the Mosaic law, then "Parity" is silly.

Even among the 10 commandments are laws which clearly derive from minds focused upon the seeds of disparity - possession and ownership...bondage to things.


shnarkle: That's just because you're hung up on labels.

William: The better way to argue is to dispense with announcing personal comments on the one opposing your argument, and just stick with attacking my argument.

shnarkle: When two people are living at parity, it matters not a bit the labels attributed to them. An unbiased observer can view two people working in a field, then two people sitting down to a meal, then doing all sorts of other things together. Parity. The fact that one is labeled a slave while the other labeled "master" makes little effective difference if they're both out doing the exact same thing.

William: Since the OP is addressing labels - specifically the label of 'slave', there is no bias on my part as observer in relation to your argument implying the Mosaic law can eventually create parity and my argument that said law encourages the continuation of possessiveness and ownership.

Address my argument rather than exclaim that I am 'hung up on labels' because my argument isn't about labels, but about the actual cause and perpetual contribution to status quo of Systems of disparity written into the Mosaic law.

The Mosaic law isn't about the liberation of slaves, as you clearly imply that it is.


shnarkle: The slaves today are so completely duped that they're begging for a wall to be built around them.

William: Indeed. The idea of protecting what one possesses and owns can be traced back to more than one or two of the 10 Commandments.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 17: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:55 pm
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[Replying to post 16 by William]

For me to point out that the labels of slave and master are what people are looking at rather than the fact that they're standard of living is identical is not a personal comment or attack. It's my argument.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 18: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:01 pm
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[Replying to post 16 by William]

Your argument that slavery encourages possessiveness is not an argument. It's a claim in need of some deductive support. I've already provided evidence to the contrary from the law itself which stipulates that the owner of a slave must not just treat them with the dignity befitting them as a human being, but one deserving of the same standard of living which expressly means eating the same food, etc.

Owners of companies are no more possessive of their employees than a slave owner would be unless they saw them as invaluable. But then that's a good thing, right? They don't want their competition to get them so they offer incentives to stay in their employment. As the bible says, "your slave is your money". Your employee/slave makes you all that money so you take care of them better than anyone else will so they will stay, and continue making you lots of money.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 19: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:04 pm
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[Replying to post 16 by William]

When the Mosaic law describes when, where, and how one must free their slaves, it's about freeing slaves QED When the fact that no other neighboring societies provided these regulations dealing with the way in which slaves were to be freed, that should be more than enough evidence to show that a slaves best option was to be enslaved by an observant Jew. That was their only ticket to freedom.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 20: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:31 pm
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shnarkle wrote:

[Replying to post 16 by William]

When the Mosaic law describes when, where, and how one must free their slaves, it's about freeing slaves QED When the fact that no other neighboring societies provided these regulations dealing with the way in which slaves were to be freed, that should be more than enough evidence to show that a slaves best option was to be enslaved by an observant Jew. That was their only ticket to freedom.



This is only true for Jewish slaves. Other slaves are allowed to be kept permanently.

This is not a hidden fact even though those who try to support the Biblical method of slavery often ignore.


Tcg

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