Civil Debates on Christianity and Religions

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Harold Watson
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:42 pm  Revelation Chapter 12 Reply with quote

The early Catholic Church certainly conspired to manipulate and in many cases destroy scriptures that foretold of another prophet to come after Jesus. If they could have understood revelation at the time, they would definitely not let this pass. (sorry, you will have to be somewhat versed in Bible prophecy to follow this, something I highly recommend becoming. For a good intoduction, watch Walter Veith's lectures "The mists of time" and "The Man behind the Mask")

In Revelation Chapter 12 we are presented with the Image of a Woman in pains to give birth. This is clearly accepted as the righteous church of God about to produce a Prophet.
We have several clues as to how to place the events of this Chapter in the timeline of history. First is that the Dragon standing before her that want to devour her child is seven headed, ten horned and seven crowned. It is accepted that this beast is a representation of the Roman empire after it is divided into ten. And, because the crowns are only seven, the 3 divisions that the Little Horn Power of Daniel Chapter 7 are to pluck out from the roots, must have already been plucked. This gives us a date of after 538 AD when the Ostrogoths were destroyed.
This fits perfectly with the second clue as to the time period in Question. Once the male child is born, the Righteous Church (the woman) is relocated to the Desert (or wilderness) for the Times, time and a half a time, or 1260 prophetic years. This time period both from Daniel and Revelation is well established as referring to the period from 538 AD to 1798, while the Beast of the Holy Roman Empire ruled.
Continuing to borrow on the symbolism of Daniel to interpret Revelation, we set up the Statue of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Which represents the Non-Abrahamic empires from Babylon to Rome) next to the Woman of Rev 12, interpreted as the Righteous religious community of God. Standing next to one another we can see the time periods set before us from the Time of Babylon to the the fall of Rome when Rome was divided into ten. The Golden head of Babylon is across from the 12 stars around the Woman's head. These are often considered the 12 tribes of Israel and therefore Judaism. Then across from the shoulders hips and legs of Medo-Persia, Greece and Pagan Rome, the Woman is clothed in the Sun. This is often simply interpreted as pure teachings of God, but would be centered on the time of Jesus Christ. Then Across from the feet and 10 toes of the statue we see under the Woman's feet: the Moon.
So To put this all together, what prophet, destined to rule with a an iron rod would come in the desert in the time period after 538 AD and be represented by the symbol of the Moon? Of course this is Mohammed.
And of course this perfectly explains the meaning of the rest of Revelation Chapter 12. "15-Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river (sends Crusaders (water referring to people)) to overtake the woman(Islam) and sweep her away with the torrent."
"17-Then the dragon (Anitchrist-UnHoly Roman Empire) was wroth with the Woman(Islam) and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Righteous Jews and Protestant Christians)
The fact that the Dragon had to leave off attacking the woman clearly shows that the Jews and Christians were not considered part of this Woman, but rather the remnant of her seed…

Q 2:62 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Verification Verses/Ahadith through connect them

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Yusef wrote:

[Replying to post 19 by Yusef]
Well, Prophet Daniel(pbuh) mentioned king of north and king of south!
The same Sufyani from Shaam and Yemeni from Yemen![i don't verify that but deciding opening your mind to thinking]

And an important note i forgot to say, it is except that you should put every opinion in the tables of the Crossword, also you should test other events of the around also!
And detect other events
Means if you put a thing like the first beast in the blocks of the question {Who is the beast?},
You should check/test/analyse everything is connected to that!
Means you should put everywhere of Bible/Qur'an the same thing and test everything around..
Also it's like
Wait wait!
The better example is the Sudoku puzzle!
A great near infinity round/circular crossnumber puzzle Sudoku
That when test a number and found it's true, then it verifies that the same one which you tested side that, it's true, and that verifies one reciprocally!
I'm not saying that this is 100% correct!
But i wanna open your minds
This is a whole clear example here where we assumed the Hadith is true, and put on the Crossword and checked around and found Torah/Genesis/1:6-7 is similar and checked both and found these confirm each others!
Therefore we Stamped the Verification on both Hadith and those verses of Torah
Means except that we verified the Hadith, we realized that those verses are True!

This is that Connection in the thread Science within Religion:
ref:Re: Scientists' universe Vs Religion's Multiverse! Watch tha

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:31 am
Gnostic of John, Barbelo

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Last night I read some verses of Secret Gnostic of Yuhanna[John]

And again Connection, again keywords for the Crossword:

gazes upon his image which he sees in the spring of the Spirit. It is he who puts his desire in his water-light which is in the spring of the pure light-water which surrounds him.

"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. This is the first power which was before all of them (and) which came forth from his mind, She is the forethought of the All - her light shines like his light - the perfect power which is the image of the invisible, virginal Spirit who is perfect. The first power, the glory of Barbelo, the perfect glory in the aeons, the glory of the revelation, she glorified the virginal Spirit and it was she who praised him, because thanks to him she had come forth. This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.

"<She> requested from the invisible, virginal Spirit - that is Barbelo - to give her foreknowledge. And the Spirit consented. And when he had consented, the foreknowledge came forth, and it stood by the forethought; it originates from the thought of the invisible, virginal Spirit. It glorified him and his perfect power, Barbelo, for it was for her sake that it had come into being....

These seems [99%] to be the same Lady Fatima Az-Zahraa(S.A.A)

Shi'a Hadith
...God CreatED the world just for existence of Muhammad(S.A.A.W.A),
and Muhammad just for existence of Ali(pbuh)
..and Ali just for existence of Fatima(S.A.A)..

also there is many Hadiths about to be Holy about 5 Persons:
    1. Muhammad
    2. Ali
    3. Fatima
    4. Hassan
    5. Hussain

Also Adam asked God to forgive him through these 5 names!
Noah also...

I read this book soon and detect many connections God Willing..

Muhammad and Ali are cousins together,
Fatima is daughter of Muhammad and wife of Ali,
And Hassan and Hussain are two brothers and sons of Ali and Fatima
    Peace be upon them all

Chapter 2 of this Book exact points to The Shi'ism Theology [God The Almighty in view point of Shi'a]
ref:Scientists' universe Vs Religion's Multiverse! Watch that!

And Chapter 3 about Real Islam, means Doctrines of Shi'a and introduction.

And Chapter 4 about Saviour the Al-Mahdi(A.A.T.F.SH) [i guess]
Let's go test these to the Crossword Study

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:57 pm
2 beasts of the Revelation

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Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:

Yusef wrote:
* 7 the famous and the worst persons of Hell:
Ghabil son of Adam, king Nimrud enemy of Abraham, Pharaoh, Samiri of Moses, Bolos who converted people to worshipping Jesus, Abubakr and Umar[the first and second← caliphs of muslims, one was been such as Samiri and invited muslims to worship one other whom was such as the golden calf of Samiri] whom converted people to Atheism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Sufism, Communism[means these 2 persons made hatred of Islam]
I saw many times the phrase "the first and second" in the New Testament! And it...

Qur'an 74:27
And said, "This is not but magic imitated [from others]. (24)
This is not but the word of a human being." (25)
I will drive him into Saqar. (26)
And what can make you know what is Saqar? (27)
It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing [unburned], (28)
Blackening the skins. (29)
Over it are nineteen [angels]. (30)

Hadith of Shia/Islam
...inside the Hell there is a Valley and in that there is a Mount, and in that an Well/Pit that is Saqar and within that there is a Snack/Anaconda/Serpent that within that there is a Box that
7 the worst persons are in that:
5 of olden,
Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh, Paul, and Samiri[whom those fool jews who think it was Aaron(pbuh) Na'udhuBllah may God Forgive and Guide us]
2 of this nation
Abubakr and Umar.
Qur'an Surah 20
20:96 He[Samiri] said, "I saw what they did not see, so I took a handful [of dust] from the track of the messenger and threw it, and thus did my soul entice me."

20:97 Play Copy
[Moses] said, "Then go. And indeed, it is [decreed] for you in [this] life to say, 'No contact.' And indeed, you have an appointment [in the Hereafter] you will not fail to keep. And look at your 'god' to which you remained devoted. We will surely burn it and blow it into the sea with a blast.

And Nimrod and Pharaoh, 2 Taghuts

And Samiri, Paul, Abubakr, Umar. These are 4 Taghuts and Satans including the satans who usually come after Prophets and deceive believers and make them astray and send them to hell fire
Qur'an Surah 2
2:165 And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment.
2:166 Play Copy
[And they should consider that] when those who have been followed disassociate themselves from those who followed [them], and they [all] see the punishment, and cut off from them are the ties [of relationship],
2:167 Play Copy
Those who followed will say, "If only we had another turn [at worldly life] so we could disassociate ourselves from them as they have disassociated themselves from us." Thus will Allah show them their deeds as regrets upon them. And they are never to emerge from the Fire.
Hadith of Shi'a
These verses of Qur'an are about the first and second, Abubakr and Umar they were infidels whom didn't worship God even a moment, and agreed Islam just for they heard from Jews that the Prophet will come among Arab and will be won versus Arabs therefore they got avarice for kingdom... any sin/killing/terrorism/astray do from they till day the resurrection, they both are guilty and people's sins will be written to these both

Also many parts of Qur'an that say about polytheism/christians, it's interpretation is about those who are followers of Abubakr, Umar, Uthman instead of Ali[pbuh]

Qur'an 20:97
Prophet Moses[pbuh] tells Samiri the satan:
... And look at your 'god' to which you remained devoted. We will surely burn it and blow it into the sea with a blast

Shi'a Hadith
At the end time Al-Mahdi comes, he takes out dead the first and second[Abubakr & Umar] from their graves and suspends both on a dead tree and ask them admit themselves.. and they do. Then the tree will be alive/green!!
And Munafiqs[false muslims] will be wondered and say: this is their miracles! And we now believe in them more than before!
Then Al-Qa'im says: this was a test for separate false muslims from real Muslims!
Then burns the tree and wind blows their slags into the sea..

I think i detected that this Hadith is Decoded of the same Verse of Qur'an!

As the Revelation tells a similar thing

As you put these 4 events on the timeline, therefore you recognize that all fours follow a rhythm!

Put these 4:
1. History of historians
2. History of the Revelation
3. History of Qur'an
4. History of Hadith
ref:%E2%98%86 Can one/men Change Predictions!!? %E2%98%86

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:07 pm
Real Meaning of Worshipping in holy books!

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[Replying to post 23 by Yusef]
First of all i should tell you meaning of the 'Decoders' that I use that in recognizing the holy books.

While you wanna install a satellite receiver,
Satellite orbiting that is in sky, this is Encoder
Satellite receiver that is in your house, this is Decoder
Owners of channels Encode their programs and send to sky, to 0 & 1
You watch them via receiver that Decodes the programs/movies
And you don't need to any Detector!
But when you want to know what voltage/current/frequency/digital is passing between these transmitter and receiver, put a Detector between them Finder/Oscilloscope
Then via the oscilloscope you recognise and realize how the movies have been Encoded and then have been Decoded from TV Show to 0&1 and again TV Show.

Or in cars,
Sensors → ECU → Sensors
Detector: Diag/Multimeter/Oscilloscope

I as a humble detector detected for you these many connections between these holy books and solved a great part of the crossword BUT a bit and VERY IMPORTANT row/column that there is near center of this part of solved tables;

And this is Worshipping in the books!

Qur'an 9:31
«اتّخذوا احبارهم و رهبانهم ارباباً من دون ‏اللّه و المسیح ابن مریم و ما أمروا إلاّ لِیعبدوا الهاً واحداً لااله إلاّ هو سبحانه عمّا یشرکون» (توبه / 31)
They take their rabbis and their monks for their lords apart from Allah,31 and also the Messiah, son of Mary, whereas they were commanded to worship none but the One True God. There is no god but He. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with Him in His Divinity.

Shi'a Hadith
الامام جعفر الصادق ‏علیه السلام: «اما واللّه ما صاموا و لا صلّوا و لکنّهم احلّوا لهم حراماً و حرّموا علیهم حلالاً فاتّبعوهم و عبدوهم من حیث لا یشعرون»
They didn't do TSalat[Say Prayer] and TSamu[Fasting] for their Rabbis and Priests, rather their scholars made for them Halaal[allowed] Haraam[forbidden] and made Haraam Halaal. And they FOLLOWED them BLINDLY. Therefore they WORSHIPPED them ignorantly!

Therefore everyone follow one blindly:
    1. The followed person is NOT on the straight single way of God,
      Therefore he has worshipped him ignorantly and has worshipped anything but God!

    2. The followed person is exactly on the straight single way of God.

You Samirians that name yourselves Jews!
Why do you follow Samiri instead of Prophet Moses[pbuh] and worship Samiri!??
Why do you instead of Prophet Solomon[pbuh] and Asif-ibn-Barkhiya[pbuh] follow Harut&Marut and worship them??

You Paulians that name yourselves Christians!
Why do you instead of the 12 saint disciples[pbu th] follow and worship Paul??

You Umarians that name yourselves Muslims!
Why do you instead of the 12 saint Imams[S.A.A] follow and worship Abubakr and Umar also Aisha daughter of Abubakr ignorantly??

You Taghuties that name yourselves Shi'ahs!
Why do you instead of be awaiting for coming Al-Khurasani from East and Al-Yamani from Yemen, follow and worship Khomeini and Khameneii and worship them ignorantly??
Be awake and find straight way and guid us if we are away from the straight way of God!
Don't you afraid of God???
Don't you look at Existence of God even a moment???
Don't you think about Greatness of God even a moment???
Which one of us have deepen their heads into snow?

According to Shia Hadiths,
Taghut is the worst and worse than Anti-Christs,
Because anti-christs are those people who have found within themselves specifications like to prophets and ignorantly think they have been chosen by God! and if they read/research the more about religions and their commandments, maybe they awake and return back from their false ways..
But Taghurs are those who have knowledge about the place they sit down! But as they are unbelievers within their own hearts, they insist on their own kingdoms

These were my humble opinions/viewpoints and maybe errors but those i quoted from the Whole Science.

And these personal opinions are what are debatable
Not things have been sent down from God to us!

What are your opinions!?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 am
Anti-christs: false-prophets < Taghuts

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[Replying to post 24 by Yusef]

At all
Dajjals[anti-christs] say:
    We have found specifications within ourselves that we might be saviour for this era and problems of people..
    We have read many books and predictions of personalities of the end times, and we have found specifications of those personalities within ourselves! And we claim are those personalities!
      well, if they study/read/research the more, then:
        either be remorseful and return back from their false paths,
        Or insist on their claimant!

Taghuts[real anti-christs] say:
    We know all apocalypse and know all personalities of that, but we govern/rule/kingdom for make ready the path for coming them!
    We know all, but we don't need to be awaiting them, and we ourselves are able to run a religious government the same duty the Saviour wills!!

See how much Taghut and HizbutTaghut are dirty and satanic..

I think governments such as islamic iran or islamic afghanistan etc..

Shi'a Hadith
While Al-Mahdi comes, there isn't any enemy for him dangerous than Fuqaha[Priests] who claimed they were waiting him!! And if the weapon wasn't been with him, Fuqaha would command killing him!! And he starts his murdering to the same false-shi'ahs

Another Shi'a Hadith says: every event was among Bani-Israel[generation of Israel], the same events will be occurred within thin nation

As the Jews were waiting for coming the Saviour Isa-Masih[Jesus-Messiah] peace be upon him and when he came they rised against him,
For Al-Mahdi[S.A.A] is too.
Priests of end times specially false-shi'as whom will say: we don't need to son of Fatima to rule us!
And Al-Qa'im starts murder them in a Monday from morning until afternoon

ref:Re: Ahmad-al-Hassan a dajjal/false-claims and non-Taghut that claims he is the same Al-Yemani and we debated and they lost through strong clear reasons and methods of debating

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:07 am
Ghadir Khum event

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Hi non-fools including Theists and atheists.

In the occasion of anniversary of Day Ghadir Khum, tomorrow Tuesday, we bring some Hadiths around that:

Shi'a Hadith
....a Jewish man saw soldiers of the first & second[abubakr & umar] are pulling fastened hands Hadhrat Ali[S.A.A].. then converted to Islam[Shi'a]
One asked him: why didn't you convert while he[Ali] won versus powerful forts/castles of Khaybar!?
Answered: because i saw one who won in the great battle of Khaybar, Now he is fastened hands and i recognised and realized that he acts just for Yahweh in both events!
That time he attacked powerfully
This time he used patience take a while he would can attack them too. But for this reason that Islam is new/beginning and people are fools too. And these two make Fitna among people...
Both times he reacted for God!

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