Glad, Rejoicing Reviled & Persecuted Christians

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:26 pm

Our scripture lesson for today can be found in Matthew 5:11-12 (NRSV):

Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Those who follow Christ presumably must obey this injunction by celebrating the hurt they experience because they are his disciples. In a way it makes sense; if a person is confident that that person will receive a great reward in the future as a result of present suffering, then for that person that suffering is well worth enduring and something to feel good about.

Question for Debate: Are any of the Christians here glad and rejoice when they feel persecuted for their faith in Christ?

I don't see it. In fact, I know of some Christians who complain when they think they because of their beliefs are coming under attack.

If I'm wrong, then let some unbelievers know. They will "revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely." That way you can be really glad!

Post by **The Tanager** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:48 pm

When you are mistreated (say, by how some Christians respond to you here) for your beliefs, what is your reaction? Is this worth complaining about? Do you give up your views or do you remain strong in your beliefs? Do you not feel that you have something much better than their approval? That your reward is greater than what they offer you?

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:57 pm

The Tanager wrote: When you are mistreated (say, by how some Christians respond to you here) for your beliefs, what is your reaction? Is this worth complaining about? Do you give up your views or do you remain strong in your beliefs? Do you not feel that you have something much better than their approval? That your reward is greater than what they offer you?

Tan, answer my question, then I will answer yours. Fair enough?

Post by **The Tanager** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:51 pm

[Replying to post 3 by Jagella]

I'm sorry, I thought the implications were clearer than they must have been. Of course that is fair. The short answer is "yes". The more informative, but still short, answer is that I rejoice because I have a relationship with God. That even in the midst of ridicule by some on this board (only a few and of no real concern, which is a very, very weak sense of "persecuted") I am currently experiencing heaven, which overshadows these "persecutions."

Other, fellow Christians are truly persecuted for their faith and have spoken of the same kind of rejoicing in the midst of that, but I do not those experiences personally.

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:39 pm

Peace to you,

Are any of the Christians here glad and rejoice when they feel persecuted for their faith in Christ?

Feeling persecuted and being persecuted aren't necessarily the same thing, but the short answer to your question is yes. I'm not sure what there is to debate about that?

Something had happened (not here, but on another forum) and when it happened, my Lord reminded me of this verse. So it was not just the existence of the verse, but that He reminded me of it. Where would there be room in me to feel bad about anything after that? So I just did and felt exactly what He said to do and feel: rejoice and be glad.

Few are eager to face persecution (imo) - of any kind - but if one is indeed persecuted for faith in Christ, this comes with a blessing and an assurance.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:42 pm

The Tanager wrote:I'm sorry, I thought the implications were clearer than they must have been. Of course that is fair. The short answer is "yes". The more informative, but still short, answer is that I rejoice because I have a relationship with God. That even in the midst of ridicule by some on this board (only a few and of no real concern, which is a very, very weak sense of "persecuted") I am currently experiencing heaven, which overshadows these "persecutions."

Other, fellow Christians are truly persecuted for their faith and have spoken of the same kind of rejoicing in the midst of that, but I do not those experiences personally.

That's better!

So let me help you rejoice and be glad by saying that anybody who holds Christian beliefs is a dad-gum, rinky-dink, holy-roller!

Did it work?

When you are mistreated (say, by how some Christians respond to you here) for your beliefs, what is your reaction?

Actually, most of the Christians here have treated me well. At worst, some of them have annoyed me. On some other sites I've been treated far worse, but I react by fighting back.

Is this worth complaining about?

I suppose not especially if it's a board that will ban me for complaining. Matt Slick at CARM, for example, threatened to ban anybody who dared to complain about the way he treated atheists in his forum.

Do you give up your views or do you remain strong in your beliefs?

So far my skepticism regarding Christian beliefs has not changed much. I am perfectly willing to change my mind, though, if any Christian can offer the evidence I need to make that change.

Do you not feel that you have something much better than their approval?

No. I'd gladly give up anything I think now for new information.

That your reward is greater than what they offer you?

My only reward as far as I'm concerned is to know the truth. If Christians have truth to offer, then I will gladly accept that "reward."

I answered all your questions, but I'm not too sure what they have to do with the topic. Please explain.

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:57 pm

tam wrote:
Are any of the Christians here glad and rejoice when they feel persecuted for their faith in Christ?
Feeling persecuted and being persecuted aren't necessarily the same thing, but the short answer to your question is yes. I'm not sure what there is to debate about that?

Well, you may think of this thread as a discussion rather than a debate if you wish.

Anyway, if you're glad and rejoice when you are mistreated for your faith in Christ, then why not invite that mistreatment? That way you can feel really good.

Something had happened (not here, but on another forum) and when it happened, my Lord reminded me of this verse. So it was not just the existence of the verse, but that He reminded me of it. Where would there be room in me to feel bad about anything after that? So I just did and felt exactly what He said to do and feel: rejoice and be glad.

Can you elaborate on your rejoicing and gladness? Did you throw a party, or did you just feel happy?

Few are eager to face persecution (imo) - of any kind - but if one is indeed persecuted for faith in Christ, this comes with a blessing and an assurance.

If we refer back to Matthew 5:11-12 which I quoted in the OP, we are told that Christians enduring persecution is not for nothing. They are promised a great reward in heaven. It's interesting that Christ didn't tell people to endure persecution just to act loyally.

Anyway, like I said in the OP, I just don't see this gladness on the part of Christians in the face of their feeling persecuted. I have seen a lot of complaining, though.

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 pm

Peace to you,

Jagella wrote:
tam wrote:
Are any of the Christians here glad and rejoice when they feel persecuted for their faith in Christ?
Feeling persecuted and being persecuted aren't necessarily the same thing, but the short answer to your question is yes. I'm not sure what there is to debate about that?
Well, you may think of this thread as a discussion rather than a debate if you wish.

Anyway, if you're glad and rejoice when you are mistreated for your faith in Christ, then why not invite that mistreatment? That way you can feel really good.
Those words were not a call to go out and invite mistreatment. Those words are a comfort and assurance for when that mistreatment occurs.

Something had happened (not here, but on another forum) and when it happened, my Lord reminded me of this verse. So it was not just the existence of the verse, but that He reminded me of it. Where would there be room in me to feel bad about anything after that? So I just did and felt exactly what He said to do and feel: rejoice and be glad.
Can you elaborate on your rejoicing and gladness? Did you throw a party, or did you just feel happy?
I rejoiced in my spirit and felt happy (and at peace).

Peace again to you!

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:26 pm

tam wrote:Those words were not a call to go out and invite mistreatment.

Tam, you're smarter than this. If I was a Christian, then I'd be a real martyr. If Christ's words are true, then logically the more people revile me and persecute me and utter all kinds of evil against me falsely on Christ's account, the more I could rejoice and be glad! I'd be looking forward to that great reward in heaven promised to me by Christ.

So if those who follow Christ obey him and believe his promise, then of course they would be the same as I would be having a wonderful time as they are reviled and persecuted.

Post by **The Tanager** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:24 am

[Replying to post 6 by Jagella]

You seem to interpret this passage as though being persecuted adds something to the Christian's life that was not already there. I interpret it as saying that, if you are persecuted for the truth's sake, then do not be discouraged because you already have your reward. The truth (in Matthew's view, being a disciple of Jesus) is better than not-being-persecuted by people. So, my questions were meant to draw out whether you follow this same principle, but (obviously) with different content. You too, I imagine, would think it best to not be discouraged by ridicule or mistreatment, since you believe you have the truth and you see truth as more important than seeking approval from those who "persecute" you.