God's violent ways

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

[JehovahsWitness]

Is it reasonalbe force to beat your child with a rod as a way of discipline?
Is it ever reasonable force to drown babies or have angels of death fly by and smite every first born baby it finds?
Is it ever reasonable force to order someone stoned to death?
Is it ever reasonable force to send a bear to kill children?

I've already answered those questions (you are repeating yourself), I already said yes it is and explained HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 440#978440

As for your supplementary questions, I would say I see absolutely nothing unreasonable in any of God's judgements, either of individuals of nations. I believe He has displayed the nothing but the utmost balance and wisdom in all his dealings, so there's no need to list them one by one; I know the bible very well so you won't find one I am not familiar with or haven't analysed.

The above statement should cover your ever changing list of adverbs.

Regards,


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

...the only people aboard the ark were Noah and his immediate family. No one else was invited aboard. Please show a scripture where this is the case.

Emphasis MINE


DID THE PEOPLE IN NOAHS DAY GET FAIR WARNING?

[2 PETER 2:5

[God] preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven other -

There is good reason to believe that anyone that wanted to could have joined Noah in the ark and been saved.

• 1. The bible stipulates that Noah preached about what was coming. Noah is thus identified as the first "evangelist". Biblically preaching always serves the double purpose of warning about coming events and providing opportunity for escape.
  
  2. The size of the Ark was so collosal and the project so long in duration, that it is unreasonable to believe that it was not general knowledge what he was doing and why. Had people believed him they would naturally either have joined him as there would have been room for a great many people or, had many thousands have converted, set to work building their own vessels. In either case the time, information and opportunity was evidently available.

Noah must have had immediate family, brothers and sisters, and in-laws, nephew and nieces, obviously they must have known what he was doing but interestingly even they chose not to join him.

What about the babies?

Children are the responsibility of their parents. The gift of procreation places their lives entirely under the care of their parents. Should they (The parents) prove negligent they will have to answer to God for placing their children in harms way. If someone warns a parent of an imminent flood and points them to a boat, who is to blame if the parent refuses to take the needed measures to save their babies? God is gracious and we can be confident any child that loses their lives solely because of the bad decision of their caregivers will be judged as being worthy of a ressurection back to life on a paradise earth.

CONCLUSION God cannot reasonably be blamed for the deaths of those that refused to heed the warnings in Noah s day, any more than he can be blamed for the deaths of the coming destruction of Armageddon*.

* NOTE Jesus likened Noah' s day to our present time. Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching and warning of people worldwide of a coming destruction, for longer than Noan was buildjng the ark. We continue to do all that is possible to convince people to take the needed measures to save their lives and the lives of their babies.






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To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

NOAH, KILLING and ... THE FLOOD OF NOAH'S DAY

[SallyF]

Because some people need to be killed ; it's the only reasonable way to put an end to their wickedness.

Biblically speaking life is not a right it's a gift and it is not given unconditionally. God has and will always reserve the right to take back the life that ultimately belongs to him if a person shows gross disrespect for its value. The Incorrigbly wicked refuse to conform to his standards and reasonable force is to kill them.

"Because some people NEED to be killed.

I'm going to say that again …

Because some people NEED to be killed.

I suggest that your evil, genocidal, mythological Jehovah will consider you a daughter in whom he is well pleased for backing him up with that otherwise totally repugnant, inhuman declaration ... in my thinking-for-myself Atheist view.

We may consider ourselves fortunate that Jehovah is never shown to be anything other than make-believe that exists only in the minds of his followers and on the pages of his human-written propaganda ... and that these monstrous acts never actually happened.

[Tcg]

There is good reason to believe that anyone that wanted to could have joined Noah in the ark and been saved.

You may be strongly motivated to believe this, but based on the actual text presented and the fable as presented in Genesis, there is nothing to support this belief. There is not even a hint of this possibility. Before Noah began to build the Ark, God told Noah exactly which humans would join him in it.


Tcg

[ttruscott]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

1. GOD spared Nineveh by the preaching of Jonah.

2. The injunction to not include Jesus is meaningless to those who accept that Jesus was a divine person, a member of the Divine Unity named YHWH. To us, your injunction to not include Jesus is impossible if we are to answer the questions as asked.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 51 by JehovahsWitness]

The bible is quite clear about how many humans entered the ark:

Genesis 7:13
“In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.�

It doesn't say anything here about any others entering.

Peter quite specifically states:

1 Peter 3:20:

to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

You can make all these other presumptions you like but the bible completely disagrees with you.

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

1. GOD spared Nineveh by the preaching of Jonah.

But yet it was destroyed by the Babylonians less than 200 years later.

2. The injunction to not include Jesus is meaningless to those who accept that Jesus was a divine person, a member of the Divine Unity named YHWH. To us, your injunction to not include Jesus is impossible if we are to answer the questions as asked.

Why should Jesus be taken into consideration? There are members here who do not believe Jesus was God. We have Jewish members as well.

There are around 5-6 thousand years of no Jesus in the bible and then about 30 years of Jesus being in the bible. 5-6 thousand years of a very brutal god and 30 years of a pacifist God. I don't see how you can take 30 years of a nice god and trump the 5000 years of a violent god.

[SallyF]

We are having REAL trouble finding pleasant actions of the mythological Jehovah. Some of his witnesses tell us that there are people that NEED to be killed … even if they ARE only babies.

God concepts reflect the nature of the people who invent them, in my view, and they also reflect the nature of the people who believe in them.

[sorrento]

[Replying to post 51 by JehovahsWitness]

So Noah forewarned people of the flood that was going to engulf the world thus giving them the opportunity to save themselves by stepping on board his floating zoo, and that if they didn't heed his warning it would be their fault if they perished? No blame attached to god for sending the flood to drown everyone and everything? Is that right?
Does that mean that as well as spending years building a boat, in order to give everyone a chance to save themselves he also travelled the world visiting places he didn't even know existed, warning the inhabitants of the impending doom?
Just as well nobody took him up on his offer because I don't know how he expected to fit the world's population on his boat.
Of all the ridiculous stories contained in the bible, the Noah's ark yarn has to be one of the most ridiculous. I just cannot understand how anyone can accept such a story as being factual!

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 51 by JehovahsWitness]

The bible is quite clear about how many humans entered the ark:

Genesis 7:13
“In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.�

It doesn't say anything here about any others entering.

Not only that, God told Noah before he built the ark which humans would enter the ark:

• Genesis 6:17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

There is no mention of preparing for any other humans, because God had already decided all but Noah and his family would die.


Tcg