Was Judas part of God's plan?

[marco]

In one theological line Christ was sent by God to die for the sins of mankind. Bizarre though this is, let us accept that God's plan was for Jesus to die and then rise again. Had everyone accepted Jesus, they would have thwarted God's plan. Instead of curing a blind man or casting out devils or producing wine, had Christ channelled his miraculous energies into something so spectacular and beyond discussion and argument that Rome would have heard and bowed, then God's plan would have been ruined. Part of the divine plan seems to have been doubt and ambiguity.


But what part did Judas play? He was used as an instrument of betrayal; was it beyond Christ to prevent the suicide of Judas, if he had been so close to the man? We must then accept that Jesus is largely responsible for the preventable death of his friend.

Does the role of Judas cast doubt on the whole theology of Christ as redeemer and saviour?

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

Christ's instructions seem to have been: "Show them partly your credentials but not entirely - leave room for doubt."


If Christ was on a mission to persuade, to heal, to issue glad tidings, where do thorns, lashing and suicide come in? His methodology must have been flawed - unless his job was to sow division and make Jews a hated race for centuries to come.... and have poor Judas commit suicide in regretfor the job he was designed to do.

[1213]

In one theological line Christ was sent by God to die for the sins of mankind. Bizarre though this is, let us accept that God's plan was for Jesus to die and then rise again.

Bible tells that the reason why Jesus came is that he would proclaim the good news.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

No my personal believe is that he was not part of God's plan but that God did foresee that someone would betray Jesus and it was foretold in prophecy.

Just personal opinion,

JW

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

No my personal believe is that he was not part of God's plan but that God did foresee that someone would betray Jesus and it was foretold in prophecy.

Just personal opinion,

JW

God foresaw that someone would betray Jesus but couldn't see that it was Judas? Does this sound reasonable to you?


Tcg

[marco]

Bible tells that the reason why Jesus came is that he would proclaim the good news.

There are various ways of announcing "good news". Saying: "Listen here people, I am far bigger than Abraham. How do you like that?" isn't the best way to influence folk.


They didn't like it and so Christ failed in his mission. He lasted not quite 3 years - but had he been careful he could have lived to be as old as Methuselah, still proclaiming his good news. It seems silly that he came specially to educate, but taught for 30 months.
Some teacher!

[ttruscott]

But what part did Judas play?

We must all live with all the tares while the judgement has been postponed, as the parable says. Since the whole purpose of life on earth is the redemption and sanctification of the sinful elect to come into total accord with GOD, living with and suffering under the non-elect can only have one reason: it edifies the sinful elect as to the nature of the sin of the tares so the elect can come to accept that the banishment to hell of the non-elect is an absolute necessity thus ending the forced postponement of the judgement.

Even living with and learning at the feet of the Lord did not bring Judas out of his sin, part of the proof to the rest of them that the sin of the tares is eternal and they can't, will never, repent and so must be banished.

The part Judas played is no different in principle than the part all reprobate play in the redemption of the sinful elect.

[Tcg]

The part Judas played is no different in principle than the part all reprobate play in the redemption of the sinful elect.

In other words, the elect would be lost without the reprobate. That's quite a system God has developed. When it comes to loving your neighbor as yourself, I guess God is more of a do as I say not what I do type of guy.


Tcg

[marco]

Even living with and learning at the feet of the Lord did not bring Judas out of his sin,

No, it was BECAUSE he was picked by Jesus that he ended up where he was; he was part of the package. Was it impossible for Jesus, as his companion, to explain the theology and convince Judas of his credentials? Obviously Judas did what he did because he was not persuaded; he was simply giving information about a boastful man. If Christ was incapable of proving himself when he was face to face with a follower, why should he expect people two thousand years away to accept him? And how could he expect devout Jews to accept him?

The part Judas played is no different in principle than the part all reprobate play in the redemption of the sinful elect.

You are sidestepping the issue, which is that Judas was an integral part of God's plan of "so loving the world that he offered his son to be killed." He therefore provided the instruments for his son's slaughter.

[SallyF]

The plan …

Well, the planet had dried from the Flood sent by our Genocidal Father who art in Heaven, and cultures who had never heard of the mythological Jehovah were worshipping their own versions of "God".

Jehovah became emotional all over again.

There was a committee meeting in Heaven, involving Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost (three omnipotent omnisciences are better than one) and, of course, the plan they came up with was godly and perfect … flawless … pure … and yes, "godly", is the word.

The ONLY thing that would settle Jehovah down again, was for the Holy Ghost to take Jesus down to a hillbilly culture on the frontier of the Roman Empire and insert him in the uterus of a Jewish virgin.

Perfect …!

But they needed a patsy as part of the Divine Plan.

They were "God".

WHATEVER they did would be justified by the unquestioning faithful.

Poor Judas.

Nothing personal, I expect.

Just collateral damage in the greater scheme of Jehovah's mysterious ways.

Just like all the babies he has drowned and roasted in his "scriptures"

But then again - as we have been told - some people NEED to die.

So what's one patsy and his 30 pieces of silver …?