Chicken or the Egg?

[bigmrpig]

As a preface, I would just like to say that I'm a 15 year old boy who should be doing his homework, but I just want to get out my opinion on why Creationists should not say that evolution doesn't provide an answer for which came first, the chicken or the egg.

The chicken is not something that is defined, it's simply a classification we give to a certain animal with similar characteristics. These characteristics cannot be defined to a genetic level, which is what evolution is based off of. A chicken can evolve and still be a chicken. Therefore, the problem with asking this question of evolutionists is that evolution says that organisms advance, not that they change species. The change is something we identify in hindsight.

Since the "chicken" cannot be defined genetically, evolution cannot say when it first existed. The chicken, under evolution, evolved gradually. And evolution <i>can</i> say that if you can give a definition of chicken genetically, then it can say which came first. The egg did, because before the modern chicken existed, there were chicken-like animals, and these bred and slowly evolved, eventually, theoretically, making a chicken, different from it's parents in a very slight way that made them not chickens.

But because chickens cannot be defined specifically enough, evolution cannot explain it, because evolution is an explanation of the changes of organisms and the chicken is a general undefined description of a group of similar organisms. Chickens.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg? Neither. Because a chicken is not definable.

Evolution could say that the egg came first if the "chicken" was specific enough, but it's not. It's like asking someone to find the value of X without giving them any information.

I could say that the only organism that could be considered a chicken are ones that have the exact same genetic structure as the one I had for dinner. Therefore, the only chicken in the world would be the one I had for dinner, because no others have the same structure. But this is obviously not the case, so the definition must be broadened; Unfortunately, this definition doesn't exist.

But if a definition for "chicken" existed, then evolution would say that it came from an egg laid by a chicken-like animal that came before it, and that the chicken-like animal laid an egg that had a precise genetic change that made it a chicken. The egg came first.

Or it will, once you define chicken, anyway.

Evolution does not track changes in species, it tracks changes it DNA. And it can be said that everything is the same species as whatever it came from. Which is why species' must, for the sake of simplicity, be generalized. Too general to track.

Now back to homework.

[YEC]

Hey, BMP, watch how I deal with YEC:

do you think you can prove that?

Nope. Evolutionary biology is not my field. But it explains away your chicken-and-the-egg problem, doesn't it?

How does it explain awaythe chicken and egg problem?

just how did the egg evolve?

Possibly from the haploid generations of an alternating microbe.

"POSSIBLY"???? would of, should of, could of???

How many mutations did it take?

Three.

...you sure it wasn't 3 billion?

The typical reply from the evos is...we don't know how many but we KNOW that's how it happened, so there.

(BMP: note how I use sarcasm to add that little "bite" to my post. )

DanZ

[juliod]

How does it explain awaythe chicken and egg problem?

By placing the evolution of eggs way far back before the evolution of chickens.

"POSSIBLY"???? would of, should of, could of???

I say "possibly" because I am not up-to-date on current theory of egg evolution. My suggestion is just that, a suggestion. It is entirely plausible (and thus removes another fake pseudo-argument from the creationists) but it is not authoritative.

...you sure it wasn't 3 billion?

No. It was definitely three. I counted.

DanZ

[Maryme]

Was it an egg or a chicken? Scientists and philosophers believe that the first was the egg, arguing with this theologians. Total - 2:1 - in favor of the egg. From the point of view of scientists, the egg appeared long before the hen appeared in the process of evolution, and everyone knows the fact that the birth of life takes place in the egg.

[John Bauer]

As for the age-old question about the chicken or the egg, evolution does provide an answer for which came first: The egg. It was a thing for over 200 million years before chickens existed.