Is racism scientific?

[Wootah]

Is racism scientific?

Answer seems yes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... -says/amp/

Isn't our racism just part of our sin nature?

[Danmark]

_ There is little point in using science, facts, direct empirical observation or any other form of rationality when arguing science to those who believe a single Hadith, or verse from the Quo-ran, or Bible is more convincing than 200 years of scientific observation.

[Daedalus X]

_ There is little point in using science, facts, direct empirical observation or any other form of rationality when arguing science to those who believe a single Hadith, or verse from the Quo-ran, or Bible, or some leftist propaganda is more convincing than 200 years of scientific observation.

[Daedalus X]

If we are the same species, then what else could it be?

Physical variation within the same species.

Elsewhere Darwin stated, "as it is improbable that the numerous and unimportant points of resemblance between the several races of man in bodily structure and mental faculties (I do not here refer to similar customs) should all have been independently acquired, they must have been inherited from progenitors who had these same characters."

Read my post again, never did I or Darwin say that caucasians and negroes evolved similar traits independently.

The first ellipsis was a summary for reason "a naturalist might feel himself fully justified in ranking the races of man as distinct species."

I read this many times over and there was no intelligible thought found.

Important differences in structure and constitution are cultural differences?

No, he was referring to physical differences here, but he noted the same is true for genera of monkeys.

Then it is not only a cultural difference between the negro and caucasian. Darwin believed that there were important differences in structure and constitution between the negro and caucasian. This is the very definition of racism.

Perhaps this would change your mind then:

"Although the existing races of man differ in many respects, as in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body, etc, yet if their whole structure be taken into consideration they are found to resemble each other closely in a multitude of points. Many of these are of so unimportant or of so singular a nature, that it is extremely improbable that they should have been independently acquired by aboriginally distinct species or races. The same remark holds good with equal or greater force with respect to the numerous points of mental similarity between the most distinct races of man. The American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans are as different from each other in mind as any three races that can be named; yet I was incessantly struck, whilst living with the Fuegians on board the "Beagle," with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours; and so it was with a full-blooded negro with whom I happened once to be intimate."

The key phrase here is "American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans are as different from each other in mind as any three races that can be named." This is something that David Duke would say.

When he says "with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours" he is talking about these Fuegians and the negro the same way Jane Goodall would talk about chimps and how similar these chimps are to humans.
https://janegoodall.ca/our-stories/10-ways/

[Daedalus X]

You don't have to wonder. I posted the URL from which you can go page by page, forward or back

I posted, in bold, that which Bust Nak left out, it was important as you can see if you look at it again. viewtopic.php?p=983424#983424

Please site reference, book and page or URL where Darwin claimed a 'race' was superior genetically to another 'race' of the species homo sapiens. Otherwise your claim has no more support than an unsupported grunt from a dog.

If you want to see where I got Darwin's quote, go to my post

viewtopic.php?p=983221#983221

Then select a few words, put quotes around them like so

"instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla."

Then paste those words into a search engine, the first hit was this, click on it

https://philosophiatopics.wordpress.com ... e-gorilla/

And bingo we get the source of the quote "The Descent of Man, page 156"

I did not quote a web page like this as my source because it is not impartial, it argues for the same conclusion that I did. Notice the part that says "This passage clearly establishes the following hierarchy from most superior down to least superior:"

But let us suppose arguendo that Darwin made such value judgements on race despite the fact he actually wrote there is no difference. Suppose that. Now explain why everything, every jot and title from a 19th Century scientist has to be absolutely true, to prove whether or not race exists today as a scientific distinction.

You say "he actually wrote there is no difference." What were his exact words? Could it be possible that "there is no difference" was just your impression from the words that he actually wrote?
What Darwin wrote has to do with whether or not he was a racist and not on whether or not race exists as a scientific category. It is obvious that the races of man are different, just look at sports, the NBA in 2015 was composed of 74.4 percent black players, 23.3 percent white players, 1.8 percent Latino players of any race, and 0.2 percent Asian players. It is a scientific question to ask "why is the black race so fit to play this game?" Jews are less than .2% of the population yet have won 20% of the Nobel Prizes. Why? Science needs to investigate these differences. Even chimpanzees are superior to humans in some ways. Why?

Chimps are better at doing chimp things, blacks are better at doing black things, Jews are better at doing Jew things and whites are better at doing white things.
The races are not all the same, Darwin knew it and I know it. I don't understand why you are so reluctant to agree with us.

[Danmark]

You don't have to wonder. I posted the URL from which you can go page by page, forward or back

I posted, in bold, that which Bust Nak left out, it was important as you can see if you look at it again. viewtopic.php?p=983424#983424

Please site reference, book and page or URL where Darwin claimed a 'race' was superior genetically to another 'race' of the species homo sapiens. Otherwise your claim has no more support than an unsupported grunt from a dog.

If you want to see where I got Darwin's quote, go to my post

viewtopic.php?p=983221#983221

You are not posting original sources. For what Darwin actually wrote, read his works themselves. I posted one for you already.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Des ... 5.djvu/191

You appear to be arguing what you claim Darwin actually wrote, without actually quoting him. Original sources are superior to second hand ones.

[Daedalus X]

You are not posting original sources. For what Darwin actually wrote, read his works themselves. I posted one for you already.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Des ... 5.djvu/191

You appear to be arguing what you claim Darwin actually wrote, without actually quoting him. Original sources are superior to second hand ones.

I am sorry Danmark, but you are wrong about that.
I searched for the entire quote "We have now seen that a naturalist might feel himself fully justified in ranking the races of man as distinct species; for he has found that they are distinguished by many differences in structure and constitution, some being of importance."
And one of the hits was the web site that you posted. If I change even one letter in the quote, nothing comes up which tells us that my quote is letter perfect.

Do you still say "he actually wrote there is no difference." If so, what were his exact words?

[Danmark]

You are not posting original sources. For what Darwin actually wrote, read his works themselves. I posted one for you already.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Des ... 5.djvu/191

You appear to be arguing what you claim Darwin actually wrote, without actually quoting him. Original sources are superior to second hand ones.

I am sorry Danmark, but you are wrong about that.
I searched for the entire quote "We have now seen that a naturalist might feel himself fully justified in ranking the races of man as distinct species; for he has found that they are distinguished by many differences in structure and constitution, some being of importance."
And one of the hits was the web site that you posted. If I change even one letter in the quote, nothing comes up which tells us that my quote is letter perfect.

Do you still say "he actually wrote there is no difference." If so, what were his exact words?

you might want to learn how to turn a page, or do your own independent search. Of course, a person can't find what he does not want to find.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8iMTC ... in&f=false

btw, the site I gave was for the quote:

Every naturalist who has had the misfortune to undertake the description of a group of highly varying organisms, has encountered cases (I speak after experience) precisely like that of man; and if of a cautious disposition, he will end by uniting all the forms which graduate into each other, under a single species; for he will say to himself that he has no right to give names to objects which he cannot define. Cases of this kind occur in the Order which include man, namely in certain genera of monkeys; whilst in other genera, as in Cercopithecus, most of the species can be determined with certainty. In the American genus Cebus, the various forms are ranked by some naturalists as species, by others as mere geographical races. Now if numerous specimens of Cebus were collected from all parts of South America, and those forms which at present appear to be specifically distinct, were found to graduate into each other by close steps, they would usually be ranked as mere varieties or races; and this course has been followed by most naturalists with respect to the races of man. Nevertheless, it must be confessed that there are forms, at least in the vegetable kingdom,[1] which we cannot avoid naming as species, but which are connected together by numberless gradations, independently of intercrossing.

And here is the one for the site you "can't find:"
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Des ... 5.djvu/189

[Yusef]

[Replying to post 70 by DrNoGods]

You said the IQ tests have shown us that there isn't any difference between Males and Females,
I proved that EVEN somewhere Females are IQer than Males!
How!?
By Race, Location, Studying, etc..

The hidden advanced creatures except the generation of Adam & Eve !! on the same Earth!!

An other examples:
I'm working in a company that my salary is depending on my own work and i'm free. The normal outputs should be 30 pcs per hour, then i provided some methods that i can 200pcs/hr! And even i can 500pcs/hr but I hide that for the future.. well, a Turkish man that is owner of the Plating/Coating and is rich, it told me: o' yusef, give me your part of welding/brazing/soldering also teach me all the methods you use, then we give you an other job here!! I replied: Whattt!!?? Then I told the owner of company that Which jungle it has come away from that suggests that!!!? He laughed and replied.....

An other example:
I took my car to a repair shop for changing the dust-cover/axle-cover we say in the Persian "Polos" also in the Persian, Paul is Polos haha.. well, these Turk men changed the covers, then went by my car and made the fuel tank empty and broke the light bulbs and welded under of the car by Electrode!!
I told them o' .....! I'm myself welder/brazer... how don't you know that a place that is vibrating you shouldn't weld by Electric!!??? And what will be the light bulbs??? After 1 month I saw they hadn't filled those part grease! Even 1cc!! The place must be full of grease!!

An other example:
Before becoming religious, i was poor and poor.. i went to a dentist, he was a Turk man from Tabriz, he should fill my tooth... and the first step he made empty my tooth and said go and come the next week.. i went after 2 years! Then he understood that i hadn't have money that didn't continue my tooth.. then he made my tooth well and got the same mony that 2 years ago should i was given!!
He was a Turk also, but he was Doctor, also lived in a City, also was religious!
After many years my teeth haven't had any pain or

Compare these examples together.

Well,
About comparison between Religion's Science Vs Today Scientists' Science,
Since about 10 year that I've been religious i haven't ever ggone to hospital and i haven't ever eaten any chemical btdk
Also i have 2 of my teeth that were been broken and just feet of them are exited, no. 6 and no. 8 means wisdom.
Well, i decide find that dentist, Dr. M. Kompani Tabrizi and make myself such as the mouse for him and we discover how the religion and its commandments has made my teeth these many silence and well!
And now i can't meet him because of existence of these many Turk and Afghanis the gog & magogics that have made me busy in themselves
May God Put one such as them in your way and it remind me for u.

Well,
Look again!
Look carefully!
Our priorities are:

• 1. Win - Win
  2. Win - 0
  3. 0 - Win
  4. 0 - 0

But their priorities are:
Look carefully:

• 1. Lose - Lose !!
  2. Win - Lose
  3. 0 - Lose
  4. Nothing else.

Well,
By these examples i proved for you that the Race alone is not enough for growing!
Also, the Race and Gender aren't insurance for growing!

Well,
Among the same people who all detest them, an appointed group will rise that we should obey them! According to Shi'a Hadith about rising of Al-Khurasani(some believers of Uzbeks and Afghans)
See how God Choose the best people within the worst people!
Although i exampled just turks of central iran, and i have had Uzbek friends that i love them although they had weak IQ but by the Taqwa and Religious, they aren't boring.
Example:
I was decided make the wall taller, then i got a 6meter iron and an Uzbek told me: o' master, let me help you! I approved and I told him: please hold this side of it on this place that I have marked! Be aware that even 1mm doesn't change! He said okay don't worry! I said it takes just 7seconds that i weld this side then i get that from you and you can go.. then i weld this side then he told don't worry! Make that hard! I replied okay! Then I saw he has put that side on the door!!!!! Means 50cm changed the place!!! Hahaaaaa i didn't condemn him and I told him than it's okay hahahaa
Why!?
Because he was decided helpe me in his heart purely!
I'm not sad for him but the previous examples although they are the same race, but they weren't Religious nor Pure... and they were thefts, liars, betrayers, gog and magogics
May God Put some of them in your way hahaha
Although I am garden of feet of dogs of soldiers of army of Al-Khurasani
The hidden advanced creatures except the generation of Adam & Eve !!
Therefore we should not think that bcz of our races we aren't good people!
Not!
We should grow from each point/level are and upgrade daily

Did you understand!?

[Bust Nak]

Physical variation within the same species.

Why would our skin color make one race superior to another, scientifically?

Read my post again, never did I or Darwin say that caucasians and negroes evolved similar traits independently.

Right, the point was, Darwin says quite explicitly that physical variation are not important.

I read this many times over and there was no intelligible thought found.

19th century English is a bit hard to read.

Then it is not only a cultural difference between the negro and caucasian. Darwin believed that there were important differences in structure and constitution between the negro and caucasian. This is the very definition of racism.

How is it racist to point out there are indeed physical differences between the races?

The key phrase here is "American aborigines, Negroes and Europeans are as different from each other in mind as any three races that can be named." This is something that David Duke would say.

When he says "with the many little traits of character, shewing how similar their minds were to ours" he is talking about these Fuegians and the negro the same way Jane Goodall would talk about chimps and how similar these chimps are to humans.
https://janegoodall.ca/our-stories/10-ways/

Why would you believe that? Darwin was clearly say the different races are as smart as each other, all it takes for a savage to become civilised is cultural change. Granted, even a word such as "savage" can be seen as racist, but look behind the word to see what he was getting at: our differences are skin deep.

[Danmark]

Physical variation within the same species.

Why would our skin color make one race superior to another, scientifically?

Read my post again, never did I or Darwin say that caucasians and negroes evolved similar traits independently.

Right, the point was, Darwin says quite explicitly that physical variation are not important.

I read this many times over and there was no intelligible thought found.

19th century English is a bit hard to read.

I find Darwin's prose not only readable, but interesting and intelligent. It is most of the prose of today that is boring and uninteresting.

For example:
"Every naturalist who has had the misfortune to undertake the description of a group of highly varying organisms, has encountered cases (I speak after experience) precisely like that of man; and if of a cautious disposition, he will end by uniting all the forms which graduate into each other, under a single species; for he will say to himself that he has no right to give names to objects which he cannot define."

In a poetic and scientific way he is simply saying that a cautious scientist will realize there is variation within a species and he cannot give a name [such as 'race'] to something he cannot define."

If "Daedalus X" has other passages he cannot comprehend, I will be happy to 'translate' for him.

OTOH, if he doesn't understand Darwin, perhaps he should not offer opinions based on his poor understanding.