Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

[Topaz27]

I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?

[Topaz27]

Jehovah's Witness:
I know that mountains are taller then they used to be, I stated that in previous posts. I am also aware that we can measure how much a mountian "grows" each year. So we can go back to when the flood would've happened, and calculate the highest point at the time. Using that knowledge we can determine how much water would have been needed. The simple fact is that, there isn't enough water on Earth to complete this.

Futhermore, you previously gave me this article.
https://www.astrobio.net/extreme-life/s ... rly-earth/

This article also states that life most likely started 3.5 billion years ago. According to the Bible it only started a few thousand years ago. The article then goes on to talk about the Cambrian expansion and how salt almost definitely played a huge role in it. The Cambrian expansion happened about 500 million years ago. Once again the Bible states that the world has only existed for a few thousand.

Therefore, according to this scientific article. Oceans, a few thousand year ago, were saltwater.

So once again, how would salt and fresh water animals be able to survive in the same enviroment.

[JehovahsWitness]

I have already stated my view on timescales, I'm not a big fan of repeating myself.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 833#983833

Jehovah's Witness:
I know that mountains are taller then they used to be, I stated that in previous posts. I am also aware that we can measure how much a mountian "grows" each year.

Your calculations seem to presume a steady predictable growth without the possibility of a cataclysmic event that dramatically altered earths topology within a short period of time but note the following article ...

HOW MOUNTAINS ROSE FROM SEA
The New York Times Archives, March 12, 1987, Section A, Page 22

Scientists have found fossils of whales and other marine animals in mountain sediments in the Andes, indicating that the South American mountain chain rose very rapidly from the sea... the violent upthrusting of the Andean chain has carried the sediments to the tops of mountains. In geological terms, the time the fossils took to rise from ocean floor to mountain top was relatively brief.

Theoretically a massive weight impacting on the planet from or above the mesophere could have caused or contributed to the "rapid" growth of mountains

See earlier POST where did the water come from?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 807#983807




Further reading
http://www.sci-news.com/geology/science ... 01351.html

[JehovahsWitness]

According to the Bible it only started a few thousand years ago.

Many interpret it thus, Jehovah's Witnesses such as myself are not of that number. The bible properly understood does not disallow for a planet many billions of years old.



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[brianbbs67]

I believe in the world wide flood. There is a layer of sand at a certain depth, consistently , in most places and many other cultures, including Gilgamesh's have flood stories. If we look to the Hebrew word, Gen. 7, it say when the flood was upon the Earth 40 days...the ark was lifted. Verse 24 tell us "and the waters strengthened upon the Earth a hundred and fifty days".

Then God remembered Noah and they began to recede. The fountains of the Earth seem to account for most of the water, although there was rain also for at least 150 days. Gen. 8 tells us it was over 7 months. They (waters) built up for 150 days and receded over 150 days. So, Noah appears to be afloat for nearly a year. Notice Genesis 8:13, "it came to pass in the 601st year" It was 600 and so was Noah when this started. This is more than enough time to be plausible.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 24 by brianbbs67]

The time may not be as definite as we may come to think of it.

The year, by invention of the calendar, may also be quite metaphorically put rather than literal so to say that Noah and all of his human beings and animals endured some time until the flooding process finished. Ok?

[Difflugia]

Jehovah's Witness:
The Bible does in fact tell us where the water comes from. Look at Genesis 7:12. It specifically says that it rains for 40 days and 40 nights.

You missed 7:11, which says that the fountains of the deep burst forth.

(Source)

[Topaz27]

Jehovah's Witness:
I'm sorry I don't quite understand the "massive weight impacting on the planet from or above the mesosphere" point that you made. Are you just talking about a meteorite? If so how much would that impact the height of Mt. Everest? Because I truly don't know. I know meteorites can cause earthquakes, but how much would that change the height?

If you believe the scientific age/history of the world, then the ocean would most definitely be salt water at the time of the flood. Once again, we know roughly when oceans became salty. Approximately 500 million years ago.

I also believe time scales are very important. For precisely these reasons.

brianbbs67:
While Gilgamesh has a flood story, that doesn't make it real. Many tribes in North America don't have flood stories. While a few do, the majority do not. Also the few that have flood stories lived by either the ocean, or the great lakes.

One interesting flood myth is Nu'u. Nu'u is basically just the story of Noah, but based in Hawai'i. He made an ark and landed it on top of a mountain in Hawai'i. He then sacrificed animals and when he did the god Kane descended to him on a rainbow. Quite similar to Noah, but in an entirely different local.

In fact many religions/cultures have a very similar story, most likely due to the almost world wide view of waters having a purifying quality to them.

Even if the water came from underground, the majority would be fresh water. In fact it makes up about 20% of Earth's fresh water.

The idea that all land being under water also brings up the problem of vegetation. How would so many plants survive under water for that long?

Aetixintro:
I don't see why they would make the amount of time be metaphorical, and I don't think that changes my arguments.

Difflugia:
You're right I did miss that verse. But as stated above, "fountains of the deep," are responsible for 20% of Earth's water. I also love the diagram, it's quite interesting. Even though it is obviously not correct, it's interesting to see how Ancient Hebrew's viewed the Earth. I think it sheds a light on the lack of knowledge that people back then had about the physical world.



Thank you for the responses, and I appologize for the late reply

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witness:
I'm sorry I don't quite understand the "massive weight impacting on the planet from or above the mesosphere" point that you made.

I'm saying that massive cosmic event with a cataclysmic volume of matter impacting on earth would logically impact tetonic shift (and climate), resulting in massive changes in earth topology over a very short period and this event would exist outside calculations of subsequent slow growth of mountains or sea basins.

Did a comet kick-start Earth's plate tectonics?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... tectonics/

MY COMMENT Scientist theorize that the earth did indeed suffer massive die off due they theorize to some kind of extraterestial downpour

EXTRACT But a series of cometary fragments exploding over North America might explain a layer of soil immediately prior to the cooling containing unusually high levels of iridium—an element more common in cosmic wanderers like meteoroids than in Earth's crust. Paired with the fact that this layer occurs directly before the extinction of at least 35 genera of large mammals, including mammoths, it is strong circumstantial evidence for a cosmic event.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... years-ago/

[Eloi]

For Jesus the "story of Noah's Ark" was as real as the creation of Adam and Eve.

Mat. 24:37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.

There is no reason why a true follower of Jesus Christ should doubt the reality of the Flood story.

[JehovahsWitness]

If you believe the scientific age/history of the world, then the ocean would most definitely be salt water at the time of the flood.

You dont know that, nobody can. Saying there is nothing in scripture that contradicts theories that the earth is billions of years old, doesnt mean I have to accepted every guess, assumption and scientific theory proposed. It could be that they are right that the oceans were not originally saltwater, but wrong about when that was.