Christianity is dying in New Zealand

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OnceConvinced
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Christianity is dying in New Zealand

Post by OnceConvinced »

For the first time ever non-theist numbers are greater than Christian numbers in New Zealand.

Christianity is clearly dying rapidly in New Zealand.

The results of the 2018 census are just out and the trend continues for the death of Christianity here, while atheism and agnosticism skyrockets.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... nsus-stats

Image

And the percentage of, Jehovah's Witnesses has also been decreasing. From .46 to .43 percent of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

Australia follows a similar trend to New Zealand although not so dramatic.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


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ttruscott
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Post by ttruscott »

About time , eh?

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Tcg
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Post by Tcg »

[Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]


Sure. Now all we have to wait for is that "man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Any day now I suppose... or not.


Tcg
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OnceConvinced
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Post by OnceConvinced »

ttruscott wrote: About time , eh?
Christians have been insisting the end is near for the last 2000 years. They're always seeing signs of the end times, but it never turns out to be the case.

ttruscott wrote: 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;[/color]
Paul is the absolute worst person you could quote when it comes to end times.
You're cutting off your own legs by referring to these verses. Those words from Paul show us he clearly expected it in his life time (see under lined part). In fact he was very concerned about people falling from the faith right back then! "At hand" certainly does not mean 2000 years later. And you can't use the whole "1000 years is like a day to God" argument for Paul.

Paul seemed to believe that the final act before Christ's return was revival and the gospel being preached to all the world, which he believed had occurred:

Col 1:23: “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

Rightly or wrongly he believed the gospel had been preached to the entire world. So if he was wrong about that why would you ever take any of his other words relating to the end times seriously?

The thing is look at the time lines. Thesselonians were Paul's earliest letters. One of his last ones, 12 years later was the book of Colossions. So we go from him warning about people falling away to him rejoicing about the gospel being preached to the entire world.

And if you continue reading 1 Thess:

1Th 4:17-18
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The key words being "we".

These words were directed specifically at the Thesselonians there in the churches. So Paul clearly beleived most of them would be there at the end and told them to take comfort because he believed it was about to happen.

There are many other similar things Paul wrote, but I won't bother to post them as I'm sure you've seen them before.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

JJ50
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Post by JJ50 »

Religion has done so much damage over the centuries, the bad far outweighing the good, it would be for the best if it died out altogether.

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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

Post by Elijah John »

OnceConvinced wrote: For the first time ever non-theist numbers are greater than Christian numbers in New Zealand.

Christianity is clearly dying rapidly in New Zealand.

The results of the 2018 census are just out and the trend continues for the death of Christianity here, while atheism and agnosticism skyrockets.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... nsus-stats

Image

And the percentage of, Jehovah's Witnesses has also been decreasing. From .46 to .43 percent of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

Australia follows a similar trend to New Zealand although not so dramatic.
Is Christianity the only religion in New Zealand? According to the graph, it would seem so. Flawed, imo, surely at least Islam has a large, competing presence in that island nation.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post by Wootah »

JJ50 wrote: Religion has done so much damage over the centuries, the bad far outweighing the good, it would be for the best if it died out altogether.
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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

Post by OnceConvinced »

Elijah John wrote:

Is Christianity the only religion in New Zealand? According to the graph, it would seem so. Flawed, imo, surely at least Islam has a large, competing presence in that island nation.
Nope. Islam barely registers here, I'm happy to say.

What do you think the "other" bar represents?

Islam is included in that, amongst all the other non-Christian religions. Religions so insignificant here that they don't even get their own bar. If you click on this link you will see a table.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

Islam is only 1.32% of the population. Growing by the way due to more being allowed to immigrate.... unlike Buddhists, Jews, Catholics, JW and others which are decreasing.

And no, this is not flawed. It's from the recent census in which all New Zealanders, by law, had to participate. The only thing flawed, if there is anything, is that there are some people out there who still think they have to state a religion even when they're not practising it. So the numbers of Christians and Muslims are probably way smaller than indicated.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
OnceConvinced wrote: For the first time ever non-theist numbers are greater than Christian numbers in New Zealand.

"No religion" does not necessarily mean non-theist.

Leaving Christianity (the religion) does not mean leaving Christ and God.

A Christian belongs to Christ.

If I took part in a survey that asked me what religion I belong to, I would choose 'no religion'.


I don't know how much that could actually affect your percentages (I don't know the climate in New Zealand). Just thought I'd point that out.

Christianity is clearly dying rapidly in New Zealand.

No doubt. Christianity (the religion) will probably continue its decline there and in other places.

But Christianity is not Christ. Some may recognize this truth, hear His call to 'come out of her, my people', and come instead to HIM. Others might simply be disillusioned with religion (who could blame them?), after recognizing the hypocrisy and/or false teachings in it (including those things that conflict with Christ and His teaching). Then, for those reasons, they leave the religion and perhaps also anything to do with faith.




Peace again to you!

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OnceConvinced
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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

Post by OnceConvinced »

tam wrote:

"No religion" does not necessarily mean non-theist.

Leaving Christianity (the religion) does not mean leaving Christ and God.

A Christian belongs to Christ.

If I took part in a survey that asked me what religion I belong to, I would choose 'no religion'.
Or maybe you'd select "Prefer not to say".

But if you'd rather lie on an official government document, then that doesn't really say much for your integriy.

But it doesn't matter. Yes, like you there will be Christians out there who refuse to put their religion as Christian as they don't like being lumped in with all the other religions. But let's face it, it is kind of dishonest if they do that.

But there are just as many who are proud to call themselves Christian. I always was and I didn't care whether the government labelled it a religion. James sure as heck didn't mind (James 1:26 & 27), so why should we? If that's how they wish to categorise it, it didn't matter. Why would it? I knew I was in a relationship with God. Didn't need anyone else to recognise that.

But let's also consider:

There are many who put "Christian" on their paper simply because that's the religion their family adheres too or DID adhere to. Or they put Christian on there because they believe they are one or they have those beliefs. However they don't live it.

Surely there would be more people ticking "Christian" on their census who aren't really true Christians then there are people who just don't like the fact it's included as a religion?

I'm okay with saying they'd cancel each other out.

tam wrote: No doubt. Christianity (the religion) will probably continue its decline there and in other places.

But Christianity is not Christ. Some may recognize this truth, hear His call to 'come out of her, my people', and come instead to HIM. Others might simply be disillusioned with religion (who could blame them?), after recognizing the hypocrisy and/or false teachings in it (including those things that conflict with Christ and His teaching). Then, for those reasons, they leave the religion and perhaps also anything to do with faith.
Of course there's no way to really say who the true Christians are and who are not. No one seems to be able to say for sure. Even you, Tam, might just be kidding yourself.

It could be there is only ever one true Christian who ever lived and it's not anyone living on this earth right now.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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