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Athetotheist
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:16 pm  Their witness does not agree Reply with quote

"Now the chief priests and all the council sought testimony against Jesus to put him to death, but found none. For many bore false witness against him, but their testimonies did not agree." (Mark 14:55-56)

If the testimony of those witnesses was to be rejected because it didn't agree, how can anyone be blamed for rejecting the resurrection accounts in the gospels for the same reason?
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:08 pm
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[Replying to post 10 by Difflugia]

No, you are incorrect. The Passover meal should not be confused with the Passover festival. See LINK for details
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=893932#893932

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:12 pm
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JehovahsWitness wrote:
No, you are incorrect. The Passover meal should not be confused with the Passover festival. See LINK for details
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=893932#893932

In John 18:28 after Jesus had been arrested, they had yet to "eat the Passover." Was that the Passover meal or the festival? Keep in mind that this is exactly the same wording used in the Synoptics of the meal that occurred before the arrest.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:22 pm
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Athetotheist wrote:

...

If the testimony of those witnesses was to be rejected because it didn't agree, how can anyone be blamed for rejecting the resurrection accounts in the gospels for the same reason?


Luckily they agree, so we don’t have any problem really in believing it.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:36 pm
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[Replying to EarthScienceguy]

What clarification is needed? The text says that the witnesses were false and states that they disagreed as proof of that. The gospel accounts, with their own obvious inconsistencies, can therefore be judged by the same criterion.

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MPG Recipient Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:58 pm
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1213 wrote:

Athetotheist wrote:

...

If the testimony of those witnesses was to be rejected because it didn't agree, how can anyone be blamed for rejecting the resurrection accounts in the gospels for the same reason?


Luckily they agree, so we don’t have any problem really in believing it.

Matthew says that a shining angel rolled the stone away from the tomb, sat on it and proclaimed to the women that Jesus had risen. John says that Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty, ran back and told the disciples that someone had moved the body. Why didn't John's Mary see Matthew's angel?

After John's Mary went to the tomb twice and saw only one angel, whom she didn't know was an angel, why does Luke put her at the top of his list of women who said they saw two men in shining garments inside the tomb who told them of the resurrection?

Why does Luke have the women say that they did not see Jesus himself when Matthew says that he appeared to them as they ran back to the disciples?

Does that sound like agreement?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:19 pm
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[Replying to post 15 by Athetotheist]

Mark 16:5 further compounds the error by claiming a 'young man' was in the tomb

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive." Walter Scott (not Shakespeare, as commonly attributed)

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 17: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:25 am
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Athetotheist wrote:

1213 wrote:

Athetotheist wrote:

...

If the testimony of those witnesses was to be rejected because it didn't agree, how can anyone be blamed for rejecting the resurrection accounts in the gospels for the same reason?


Luckily they agree, so we don’t have any problem really in believing it.

Matthew says that a shining angel rolled the stone away from the tomb, sat on it and proclaimed to the women that Jesus had risen. John says that Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty, ran back and told the disciples that someone had moved the body. Why didn't John's Mary see Matthew's angel?




Did John say there was no angel?

Critical thinking skills allow discerning reader to harmonize the various narratives without too much problem.



JW


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Go to other posts related to...

BIBLICAL SEQUENCING, RESSURECTION CHRONOLOGY and ...BIBLICAL INERRANCY

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 18: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:12 am
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WHY DID MARY NOT SEE THE ANGELS?

ANSWER: One logical explaintion would be she did not see the angels because they were not there. When Mary (and her companions) first arrived there were no angels present only the stone rolled away from the entrance. It seems Mary took off running as soon as she saw the tomb was empty.

Quote:
John 20:1, 2 ....she saw that the stone had already been taken away from the tomb. So she came running to Simon Peter and to the other disciple, for whom Jesus had affection





Quote:
The other women remained perplexed at the site having assertained the tomb was indeed empty. It was at this moment two angels ("men") appeared...

Luke 24: 3--4 ....when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, look! two men in shining garments stood by them.

one angel reassured them and invited them in (again) to inspect the tomb

Matthew 28: 5-6 But the angel said to the women: “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus ...He is not here, for he was raised up, just as he said. Come, see the place where he was lying

.... the second angel one angel sitting where Jesus had lain ..

Mark 16: 5 When they entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, ... He said to them: “Do not be stunned.You are looking for Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ who was executed on the stake. He was raised up. He is not here. Look, here is the place where they laid him...




RELATED POSTS

Do angels have wings ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=894703#894703


Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 19: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:36 am
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WHY IS MARYS NAME INCLUDED IN THE WOMEN'S REPORT?

ANSWER: Because she, along with all the other women, eventually testified having seen the risen Christ Luke doesn't say who saw what, when and how. He doesn't specify which woman said what. He simply presents the global testimony* of the women and the men's reaction:

* Although it seems that Mary didn't see the two angels at the same time as the women, she too could testify to having seen two angels ("men") and Jesus himself

Quote:
LUKE 24: 9-11

Then they remembered his words, and they returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the Eleven and to all the rest. They were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James. Also, the rest of the women with them were telling these things to the apostles. However, these sayings seemed like nonsense to them, and they would not believe the women.


Notice Luke refers to the women reporting "all these things" indicating they reported all the mornings events which would include "Mary's story" even if it differed from (but corroborated with) the others. Further the Apostles had seen the empty tomb for themselves so they were obviously not dismissing Mary's initial report of an empty tomb as "nonsence" but rather a later report that Jesus was risen. This supports the view that Luke 24:9-11 is a summary of all the mornings events rather than an affirmation that Mary had seen the two angels when they initially appeared to the other women.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 20: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 am
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Athetotheist wrote:

Why does Luke have the women say that they did not see Jesus himself when Matthew says that he appeared to them as they ran back to the disciples?




Could you please provide a reference biblical for this statement. Thanks,



JW

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