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OnceConvinced
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 pm  Christianity is dying in New Zealand Reply with quote

For the first time ever non-theist numbers are greater than Christian numbers in New Zealand.

Christianity is clearly dying rapidly in New Zealand.

The results of the 2018 census are just out and the trend continues for the death of Christianity here, while atheism and agnosticism skyrockets.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/no-religion-officially-overtakes-chr...



And the percentage of, Jehovah's Witnesses has also been decreasing. From .46 to .43 percent of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand

Australia follows a similar trend to New Zealand although not so dramatic.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:10 pm
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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

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tam wrote:


Regardless of what you believe, OC, I know that I am not part of religion. Why is that so threatening(?) to you that you have to accuse me of lacking integrity, or of lying?


It seems to be you that is threatened by the term "religion". I'm not threatened by it, I just object to any Christian who claims to be more special than any other. These types of elititist attitudes we can do without.

tam wrote:


Not as you and others seem to define Christian.


Quote:

A Christian is a disciple of Christ who is anointed with holy spirit. Christ is the One who chooses whom He anoints with holy spirit. I am a Christian according to Christ, to the anointing that He gave me.


That is exactly how I would have defined it as a Christian.

This is pretty much a standard definition for what a Christian is. Common throughout Chrstian churches, at least where I come from. I believed I was annointed by the HS.

Standard Chrsitianity as far as I can see, which puts you on par with most of them.

tam wrote:

Quote:
tam wrote:


If the rest of the world believes that atheists are immoral and foolish, does that mean it's true? Does that mean you must accept a false label?


We still get to tick "No religion" and can do so with integrity.


You didn't answer my question. I think that is an answer in and of itself.


I did answer the question. You've cut off the rest of my response!

None of those options are in the census. If they were, you'd have a relevent argument, but you don't.


tam wrote:


Reading the bible does not mean that you belong to a religion.


Of course it does. It's religious ritual. All that stuff you do is religious ritual.
Prayer, bible study, quiet times, worship, singing praises to God. All religious ritual.

[quote="tam"]

Quote:
[quote="tam"]


But based upon your responses to me, you were in a religion. You were religious because you were a literal member of a sect or denomination. At least according to your responses to me.


I'm okay about calling it a reglion if others wish to define it as such. It was still a relationship with God as far as I was concerned.

Quote:
[quote="tam"]

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Of course now I look back and I see that the praying, studying of the bible, serving God, giving money to God, taking communion... plus many more things that seemed non-relgious to me at the time were indeed religious.


How exactly did you give money to God?


How do you think?

Matt 25:40
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

[quote]
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[quote="tam"]

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[quote="tam"]


A Christian follows Christ. A Christian listens to and obeys Christ. Christ is a person; not a religion; and He says that we are to worship (God), in spirit and in truth.


And you follow Christ religiously, it seems.


Once again, Christ is a person, not a religion.


Following a divine figure and living by his rules is religion.


[quote]
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[quote="tam"]

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Have you ever been baptised?


My mother had me baptized (with water) when I was three weeks old, by a priest of a religion she did not belong to (he was the only one willing to do it for her; her own religion did not practice infant baptism). But I had nothing to do with that.


Do you consider it an important ritual?

[quote]
Quote:
[quote="tam"]

Christ baptized (anointed) me with holy spirit. There was no religion or other people involved.


A religious ritual! Something you had to go through, right?

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[quote="tam"]

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Partaken in communion?


Since that is a command from Christ, then yes, of course. I belong to Christ (Jaheshua) and listen to Him. But Christ is a person, not a religion.


It's still a religious ritual.


[quote]
Quote:
[quote="tam"]

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Done a group bible study?


Yes, but that was with a religion - back when I thought I needed to join a religion. I ended that study, and that was a religion I did not join. I joined no religion.


If you're doing it on your own it's still are religious ritual.

All this stuff is the basics of what Christians do. And other religions do similar things.


[quote]
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[quote="tam"]
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Held hands while praying?


While giving thanks? Sure, and also without. But giving thanks and holding hands is not a religious practice. Giving thanks is something that comes from the heart.


Religious ritual!

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[quote="tam"]

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Prayed in public?


No.

Christ said to pray in private.


Yeah I know.

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[quote="tam"]


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Had quiet times when you go to a quiet place study the bible and pray?


That is a strange question.

How is a quiet time a religious ritual?


When you take time out each day to do it. Much like a Muslim might kneel on their mat and face Mecca.

Yep, you Tam conduct much the same religious rituals as every other Christian. You just don't want to admit they're religious rituals. Clearly, your brand of Christianity is not anythng more special than any other brand of Christianity and not any less religious.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:44 pm
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Re: Christianity is dying in New Zealand

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Peace to you OC

I am content to let my previous post(s) stand on the difference between faith and religion (most of what was explained about that in the previous post was given in the top 1/4 of that post, and not responded to in your post here. I have nothing more to add to it at this time).

I will address a couple of things in your current post just for the sake of clarity:

Quote:
[quote="OnceConvinced"]
tam wrote:


Regardless of what you believe, OC, I know that I am not part of religion. Why is that so threatening(?) to you that you have to accuse me of lacking integrity, or of lying?


It seems to be you that is threatened by the term "religion". I'm not threatened by it, I just object to any Christian who claims to be more special than any other. These types of elititist attitudes we can do without.


But I never said I was more special than any other.

That is where you went with this; not me.


Quote:
[quote="tam"]

Quote:
[quote="tam"]


But based upon your responses to me, you were in a religion. You were religious because you were a literal member of a sect or denomination. At least according to your responses to me.


I'm okay about calling it a reglion if others wish to define it as such. It was still a relationship with God as far as I was concerned.


Were you not at least also a member of a sect or denomination?

Quote:
Quote:
[quote="tam"]

Quote:
Of course now I look back and I see that the praying, studying of the bible, serving God, giving money to God, taking communion... plus many more things that seemed non-relgious to me at the time were indeed religious.


How exactly did you give money to God?


How do you think?

Matt 25:40
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'


Meaning what exactly? Did you give money to your sect/denomination/group (like a donation box or a collection plate)? Or just to people in need? Or both?



Quote:
Quote:
[quote="tam"]

Quote:
Have you ever been baptised?


My mother had me baptized (with water) when I was three weeks old, by a priest of a religion she did not belong to (he was the only one willing to do it for her; her own religion did not practice infant baptism). But I had nothing to do with that.


Do you consider it an important ritual?


No. Not for anyone who was not physical Israel (under the law covenant). The baptism of water was for forgiveness of sins as committed under the law (of the old covenant).

Water baptism does not make a person a Christian; it is definitely not the same as being baptized with holy spirit (which DOES make a person Christian).



Quote:
Quote:
[quote="tam"]

Christ baptized (anointed) me with holy spirit. There was no religion or other people involved.


A religious ritual! Something you had to go through, right?


How can something be a religious ritual if no religion is involved?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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