Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so much?

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polonius
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Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so much?

Post #1

Post by polonius »

PEW reports that:

"Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. By contrast, about two-thirds of those who were raised as evangelical Protestants (65%) and Mormons (64%) still say they are members of those respective groups."

Why, and what will be the long term effect?

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JehovahsWitness
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Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote: JehovahsWitness wrote:
NOTE We don't have "rebellions" we have a door. Anyone is free to fetch their hat and coat and walk through it at anytime.
But is it not true that those who leave your religion are "disfellowshipped"?

Absolutely, yes it's how we keep our house in order. If anyone does not want to continue living by bible standards he will not be able to continue as a member of the congregation. We certainly will not tolerate anyone putting the well being of ourselves or our children in the spiritual or physical danger.

Regarding the OP this in no way has resulted in our numbers dropping; despite our high standards we continue to be in the top five churches on the increase in America.


JW


Go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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tam
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Post #22

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote:
Overcomer wrote:
Jesus ate with sinners.
Not with Judas though. (John 13:27-30)

This is incorrect. Christ most certainly did eat with Judas, on many previous occasions and also there at the "last supper".


From earlier in the same chapter, at the same dinner:

John 13:2-5 (NWT):

The evening meal was going on,* and the Devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Is·carʹi·ot,d the son of Simon, to betray him.e 3 So [Jesus], knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands and that he came from God and was going to God,f 4 got up from the evening meal and laid aside his outer garments. And taking a towel, he wrapped it around his waist.g 5 After that he put water into a basin and started to wash the feet of the disciples and to dry them off with the towel that was wrapped around him.


Mark (NWT) make it absolutely clear that Christ was eating with Judas:

After evening had fallen, he came with the Twelve.s 18 And as they were reclining at the table and eating, [Jesus] said: “Truly I say to you, one of you who is eating with me will betray me.� Mark 14:17-18


Matthew (NWT) shows the same thing:

When evening came,p he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples.q 21 While they were eating, he said: “Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.�r 22 Being very much grieved at this, each and every one began to say to him: “Lord, it is not I, is it?� 23 In reply he said: “The one who dips his hand with me into the bowl is the one who will betray me. Matthew 26:20-21


And then there is Luke (NWT), the one book that is specifically claimed to be written as an orderly account, which not only shows Judas present for the meal, but also for the bread and wine (though that might be another discussion):

So when the hour came, he reclined at the table along with the apostles.k 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I tell you, I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.� 17 And accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.�l 19 Also, he took a loaf,m gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body,n which is to be given in your behalf.o Keep doing this in remembrance of me.�p 20 Also, he did the same with the cup after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenantq by virtue of my blood,r which is to be poured out in your behalf.s 21 “But look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table.t 22 For, indeed, the Son of man is going his way according to what has been determined;u all the same, woe to that man through whom he is betrayed!�v 23 So they began to discuss among themselves which one of them could really be about to do this.





Christ ate with Judas, even knowing Judas was set in his heart to betray Him.





Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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tam
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Post #23

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Overcomer wrote: JehovahsWitness wrote:
NOTE We don't have "rebellions" we have a door. Anyone is free to fetch their hat and coat and walk through it at anytime.
But is it not true that those who leave your religion are "disfellowshipped"?

Absolutely, yes it's how we keep our house in order. If anyone does not want to continue living by bible standards he will not be able to continue as a member of the congregation.



This is manipulative language.

A - those would be 'bible standards as interpreted by the JW religion'. Disagreeing with their interpretation of bible standards does not mean that a person has rejected written bible standards. And it certainly does not mean that a person has rejected God and His Son or the example set BY that Son.

B - not everyone who leaves the JW religion leaves because they do not want to live by bible standards. Or because they want to sin. It may well be that they have seen that bible standards - as interpreted by the JW (and/or another) religion - are in conflict with the teachings (word and deed) of Christ.

Some might even realize that the JW religion places burdens upon the people that are not in the bible (nor from Christ), despite the letter from the apostles in Acts 15 (in effect, resurrecting a pseudo-form of the former law to place people under once again). The following is just one example:

viewtopic.php?p=820949#820949

viewtopic.php?p=820968#820968

viewtopic.php?p=829156#829156



C - some (perhaps most) who leave the JW religion do so because they have seen that it teaches falsehood; even gets its members to disobey Christ in order to obey them (the religion). Some might leave and having nothing more to do with religion or faith... and some might leave the religion so as to come and follow Christ - the actual TRUTH. The One to whom God said to listen.


Go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,

In response to the shunning thread that JW has linked above:

viewtopic.php?p=895956#895956



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #24

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to post 22 by tam]

Let me clarify, Judas did not partake in the meal that symbolized the new convenient with his faithful disciples. Judas took a piece of bread but not one blessed by Jesus. Judas left before that covenant was established. (John 13:27-30)

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Re: Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so mu

Post #25

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by polonius]

"Retention figures" refer to the number/percentage of children raised in the faith that continue on into adulthood. Since do not they force their children to become JW, its normal over half choose to leave or not become Witnesses when they reach adulthood.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't get their increase from their babies, their increase comes from CONVERTS.

The Jehovahs Witness religion increase due to the numbers of people not raised in the faith who join. The JWs overall have never been in the negative growth (decreasing), so you might like to provide evidence that the global figures presently are in decline.
Yes, precisely. JWs are not BORN INTO the faith as are all other religions. If your family is Catholic, for example, their children are automatically Catholic. JWs must study the Bible and decide for themselves whether or not they want to be a JW. It is a matter of deep consideration of the Scriptures and heartfelt thoughts about dedicating oneself to Jehovah.

We have many leaving the faith, due to abandonment of their serious vow to serve Jehovah in company with His earthly organization. They once knew what they were getting into--the seriousness of it. To then go back on it is lacking in character, to say the least. No one forced them to be baptized.

However, even though many leave (after they decide that they want to be part of the world that they left, again), there are more being baptized every day or at least every week. As JehovahsWitness said, we are never in the "negative growth" pattern. Every year our total goes up, even ever so slightly. Never goes down.

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Re: Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so mu

Post #26

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 6 by 2timothy316]

Yes, timothy.....my ex husband used to tell everyone he was a JW, though he was never baptized, and people knew him as one. He just wanted to be let off the hook for buying Christmas and birthday presents. He was never counted as a JW by the Society.

This goes on a lot.

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Re: Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so mu

Post #27

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to post 26 by onewithhim]

I have seen many do this, even though they are not even an unbaptized publisher. I have also sadly seen people call themselves Witnesses while they do things that are contrary to Bible teachings. Which is a smear on Jehovah's name, and that makes me very sad. But Jehovah knew these things would happen, so we have to leave it in His care. After all His own son was killed for charges of blasphemy, which was the worst thing you could do to God's name. Yet Jehovah allowed it. He knows who's His and who is not. We don't have to prove ourselves to anyone but God. Let the world think what they want and let Jehovah's son do the judging.

Let His will take place and not ours. (Matthew 6:10)

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Re: Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so mu

Post #28

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 27 by 2timothy316]

There's no need to be overly concerned Tim, as Jesus said, "wisdom is proven righteous by its works" some may claim to be Witnesses when they are not but come the tribulation whom we really are, baptised or not will be evident for all to see. I could say something about a certain prominent female tennis layer but I will refrain.


Anyway, what was the topic... oh yes our plummeting membership that are increasing. :tongue:
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #29

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 23 by tam]

Evidently Tam there are those that believe that Jehovah's Witnesses standards and bible standards are not the same. That is fine, I personally beg to differ but I am not here to preach or to convert you or anyone to our faith.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #30

Post by marco »

tam wrote: But is it not true that those who leave your religion are "disfellowshipped"?
Absolutely, yes it's how we keep our house in order. If anyone does not want to continue living by bible standards he will not be able to continue as a member of the congregation.
tam wrote: This is manipulative language.
Yes, it sounds heartless, miles away from anything Christ taught.

If disfellowshipping results in a person being free to think as they wish, then it is a mercy. Matthew's advice: "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet."

But not everyone can be so stoical. A mother discarded or a daughter who is shunned
deserves charity and love, for they do not cease to be "neighbours."
If it causes pain, then there is a duty on those who have caused the pain to do something charitable. If instead they "harden their hearts" they are in direct conflict with anything Jesus advised. One suspects that "disfellowshipping" is an administrative convenience rather than something derived from Christ's sermons.

"When did I shun you, O Lord?" "When you shunned your fellow human and caused them pain, you shunned me." I think that captures the lesson of Jesus far more than does "keeping one's house in order."

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