Why are people so determined

[Elijah John]

Why are so many people so determined to worship Jesus? It is not a Biblical imperative. "Worship Jesus" is not a Commandment. And there is plenty of Biblical evidence that Jesus is not God. (Just talk to any Jehovah's Witness, most seem adept at supporting their beliefs with Scripture)

So why is it that so many people are so determined to worship Jesus? Even in light of evidence (Biblical and otherwise) that Jesus is not God.

Childhood or cultural conditioning? Indoctrination? Or hero worship taken to the extreme?

Is the prevelance of Jesus-worship evidence of a very human tendency to worship our heroes?

[marco]

[Replying to onewithhim]

"A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits."

We expect rubbish from Matthew and he does not disappoint here. Obviously we can get bad fruit from a normally excellent tree and we can occasionally get good fruit from a bad tree. Even in metaphor the statement is false.

Why would people want to do anything other than laugh at Matthew?

[polonius]

[quote="bjs"]
[Replying to Elijah John]

Will you at least agree that this is by far the minority opinion? The vast, vast majority of people who study the scriptures agree that the NT portrays Jesus as God.

RESPONSE: Only the Gospel of John claimed to believe that Jesus is God.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke claim that Jesus was the Messiah who is a man, not God.

The Christianity community which rejoined the Jewish community after Jesus' death and were devout Jews did not claim that Jesus was God. This change occurred about 82 AD and because of this the Christians were driven from the Jewish synagogues and labeled as apostates. See the 12th Blessing

Before that, Peter taught that:

2 Acts "22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

NB. Jesus did not "rise from the dead" (Active voice). He was "raised from the dead "(Passive voice) by God.

John's gospel agrees that Christians would be excluded from the synagogues for this belief.

After all, he was wasn't divine.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 119 by polonius]

The "minority" opinion isn't necessarily wrong just because it is the minority. By the same token, the majority isn't necessarily right because it is believed by the majority of people. Didn't Jesus say that the majority would be on the road to destruction and that FEW would find the narrow gate leading to life? (Matthew 7:13,14)

It is also true that the Apostle John did NOT portray Jesus to be God. There are more references to him being subordinate to God than there are (twisted, corrupted) verses that seemingly show Jesus to be claiming to be God. John never meant to suggest that Jesus was Almighty God. He summed up his belief in the last verse of chapter 20.

"These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name."


The Apostle Peter referred to Jesus as a "man," because that is what Jesus was. He was wholly human, but without any sin. He had to be a human just like Adam was before Adam sinned, in order to balance the scales of justice.

"For if by the trespass of the one man death ruled as king through that one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness [grace] and of
the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one person, Jesus Christ."(Romans 5:18)


.

[Avoice]

Because what he feeds them they are full.

Eternal life. .thats all Christians are concerned with.

[onewithhim]

Because what he feeds them they are full.

Eternal life. .that's all Christians are concerned with.

I don't think that people who are only concerned about their own salvation are really "full" with anything. They must get to know the true God and follow His commands (John 17:3; Matt.7:21) Otherwise, they are really empty.

Life isn't about our personal salvation....that is, being concerned only with that. There is much more to consider. Even though there is more than just believing to be saved, God's commands are not burdensome (I John 5:3).

It's sad that people look for the easiest way to be saved---"just believe," they say. They don't care about anything else, as was already brought out. In my estimation, that is exactly what Jesus was warning us about when he said what he did at Matthew 7:21 and also verses 13 and 14.

[polonius]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Will you at least agree that this is by far the minority opinion? The vast, vast majority of people who study the scriptures agree that the NT portrays Jesus as God.

JWs, Mormons, and a few other small sect say that the scriptures do not teach that Jesus is God. The overwhelming majority of people say that scriptures teach that Jesus is God.

Blaming this on indoctrination or hero worship seems like a cop out (and one that I feel is unworthy of you EJ. You’re better than that).

QUESTION: Where precisely does scripture claim that Jesus is God? Keep in mind that according to scripture all Jewish men as "sons of God" but not God himself.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Elijah John]

Will you at least agree that this is by far the minority opinion? The vast, vast majority of people who study the scriptures agree that the NT portrays Jesus as God.

JWs, Mormons, and a few other small sect say that the scriptures do not teach that Jesus is God. The overwhelming majority of people say that scriptures teach that Jesus is God.

Blaming this on indoctrination or hero worship seems like a cop out (and one that I feel is unworthy of you EJ. You’re better than that).

QUESTION: Where precisely does scripture claim that Jesus is God? Keep in mind that according to scripture all Jewish men as "sons of God" but not God himself.

I see you didn't get any answer to your question. One good reason is that there are no Scriptures that say that Jesus is God, besides a terrible rendering of John 1:1 in the KJV and others that follow the KJV.

And I think we've discussed this before---just because a majority says that something is true doesn't make it true. Didn't Jesus say that it would be the MINORITY that gets it right? (Matthew 7:14)



.

[PinSeeker]

In Genesis 15, we find the unmistakable revelation that although Abram and his descendants would have covenant obligations, God alone would ultimately ensure the success of His promises. He tells Abram to cut up various animals and to lay their pieces side by side in a line with a pathway between the pieces (vv. 9–11).

When covenants were made in the ancient Near East, there was often a cutting ceremony involved. The parties of the covenant would divide animals and both would walk between the pieces, signifying that if they broke the covenant they too would meet the same fate.

In God's covenant with Abram, however, only a smoking pot and flaming torch -- a God alone, in the form of fire -- pass between the pieces (God had caused Abram to fall into a deep sleep). It is God -- God alone -- Who takes upon Himself the curse of destruction if the promises to Abram are not brought to pass... AND if Abram and his offspring fail to keep their end of the bargain. Well, Abram failed, God did not. But He fulfilled the covenant on Abram's behalf, sacrificing himself in the Person of Jesus.

As Paul says:

• "He existed in the form of God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." [Philippians 2]

And as Paul also says:

• "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us -- for it is written, “cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree' -- in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." [Galatians 3]

Unmistakably, Jesus is God.[/b]

[PinSeeker]

Where precisely does scripture claim that Jesus is God?

In many, many places all through Scripture -- the Old Testament as well as the New.

Some are predisposed to believing otherwise, and even that is Biblical; God has said this would be the case.

[Elijah John]

Where precisely does scripture claim that Jesus is God?

In many, many places all through Scripture -- the Old Testament as well as the New.

Some are predisposed to believing otherwise, and even that is Biblical; God has said this would be the case.

Where? Where? And where?