
What was REALLY on offer (real or otherwise) by the writers of the Christian-Jewish propaganda in the first century of the Common Era …?
What do 21st Century Christians expect …?
Moderator: Moderators
In other words they are told by clergy what to believe?
1. My statement specifically referred to the US “In the United States, 55% of survey respondents who read the Bible reported using the King James Version in 2014 https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Bible_translations_into_English�. [Note: US = United States]historia wrote: A majority of Christians also don't speak English,
I do not disagree with demeaning the KJV (and all other versions of the Bible)historia wrote: let alone derive their beliefs from their own private interpretation of a 17th century translation of the Bible in a language they don't understand.
Is this to say that Christians are incapable of understanding ‘mansions’? If so, based upon these debates (and life in the Bible Belt), perhaps I should not disagree.historia wrote: Moreover, the assumption that we can somehow divine what people believe simply from what translation of the Bible they use is dubious, at best.
From your own sourcehistoria wrote: And, for clarity, the most widely cited survey of Bible usage in the United States is the annual American Bible Society State of the Bible report, which is based on surveys conducted by the Barna Group, and shows that nearly 2/3 of American Bible readers prefer modern translations, while less than 1/3 prefer the KJV, a number that continues to decline.
It is interesting to note that younger generations are also leaving Christianity.historia wrote: However, the King James has seen a nine-percentage point decrease in usage since 2016 and 14% decrease since Barna first measured this in 2011. Use of the King James Version (KJV) is directly related to age. Nearly half of all Elders use the KJV most often (49%), compared to 40% of Boomers, 34% of Gen-Xers and 14% of Millennials.
Perhaps young people are not enamored of the new Bible versions – or of the Bible in general – or of Christian dogma in general (in spite of vigorous bailing by ‘the faithful’). The young may also tend to be less gullible or naive than the old guard, more inclined to accept science over superstition, and more likely to have learned some critical / analytical thinking skills.Answers in Genesis wrote:It comes as no surprise to anyone keeping a finger on the pulse of our culture that a dramatically high number of young people are leaving the church. Many of these formerly churched individuals are now identifying as “nones� (religiously unaffiliated).
https://answersingenesis.org/christiani ... istianity/
Yup, quote their own literature to them and watch as they ‘throw it under the bus’historia wrote: The only thing that's difficult to understand, then, is why you thought this was a compelling argument.
I was raised in the church, Free Methodist, in the 50's and 60's. My dad was a preacher's kid. He liked the RSV, thought it preserved much of poetry, rhythm and language of the KJV. I agree, tho' today I mainly use the ESV.historia wrote:From their church.
A majority of Christians also don't speak English, let alone derive their beliefs from their own private interpretation of a 17th century translation of the Bible in a language they don't understand.
Moreover, the assumption that we can somehow divine what people believe simply from what translation of the Bible they use is dubious, at best.
And, for clarity, the most widely cited survey of Bible usage in the United States is the annual American Bible Society State of the Bible report, which is based on surveys conducted by the Barna Group, and shows that nearly 2/3 of American Bible readers prefer modern translations, while less than 1/3 prefer the KJV, a number that continues to decline. From the 2017 report:
Barna Group wrote:
The King James Version continues to be the version Bible users prefer most often, with 31% using this translation. However, the King James has seen a nine-percentage point decrease in usage since 2016 and 14% decrease since Barna first measured this in 2011. Use of the King James Version (KJV) is directly related to age. Nearly half of all Elders use the KJV most often (49%), compared to 40% of Boomers, 34% of Gen-Xers and 14% of Millennials.
You seem to be having difficulty following the thread.Zzyzx wrote:
Kudos to those who attempt to defend 'rooms in the sky' vs. 'mansions in the sky' -- as though either one makes sense.
No, it means we have no way of knowing how these readers interpret this passage or what they believe is being described here.
Agreed. That is what the OP is asking.historia wrote: The OP is, in essence, asking what the author of John 14:2 was describing, and what Christians today think about it.
Is this to say that the OP question cannot be answered?historia wrote: No, it means we have no way of knowing how these readers interpret this passage or what they believe is being described here.
Agreed. We do not know the intent of the writer John 14:2 and words chosen can be variously translated. Additionally, since original writing from John is not available, we have no way of knowing if his words were accurately transcribed through hand written copies of copies of copies.historia wrote: It doesn't tell us either what the original author intended or what Christians today believe.
Yup, we don’t know what Christians ‘worldwide’ read or believe. However, we do know that the Bible version that dominated for centuries clearly specified ‘mansions’. It would not be surprising if present Christians no longer believe in sky mansions or rooms or whatever was supposedly promised.historia wrote: It doesn't even tell us what a majority of Christians read when they come across this verse, as the vast majority of Christians worldwide don't read the KJV. It's just a fail.
We are indeed fortunate to have one among us who can ‘clarify what the original author was describing’ – even though, as you say, “It doesn't tell us either what the original author intended.�historia wrote: bjs' reply in post #3 helps clarify what the original author was describing.
Yup, ‘straw-man’ – quoting the KJV directly.historia wrote: let alone the straw man belief you've offered here.
John 14 may not be the best reference for the nature of the after life Jesus promised to prepare for the believers. I suggest Luke 23:43SallyF wrote: What was REALLY on offer (real or otherwise) by the writers of the Christian-Jewish propaganda in the first century of the Common Era …?
What do 21st Century Christians expect …?