Jesus is God, made man

[PinSeeker]

For debate:

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The world and all natural things came into existence only through God:

• "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." [Genesis 1:1]
  
  "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God... For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things." [Romans 11:33-36]
  
  "seek God... He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist" [Acts 17:27-28]

Likewise, the world and all natural things came into existence through Christ Jesus:

• "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." [John 1:1-3]

Therefore, Jesus is also part of the One True God. He's just not God the Father.

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Only God is not in need of salvation, He IS our salvation:

• "The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold." [Psalm 18:2]
  
  "The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the defense of my life; Whom shall I dread?" [Psalm 27:1]
  
  “Surely, the hills are a deception, A tumult on the mountains. Surely in the LORD our God Is the salvation of Israel." [Jeremiah 3:23]

Likewise, Jesus was not in need of salvation, but IS our salvation:

• "Jesus Christ... is the stone... which... became the chief corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else... by which we must be saved.â€� [Acts 4:10-12]
  
  "God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ..." [1 Thessalonians 5:9]]

Therefore, Jesus is also part of the One True God. He's just not God the Father.

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Only God can give His Law, and only God can fulfill His law:

• "...God spoke all these words, saying, 'I am the LORD your God... showing lovingkindness... to those who love Me and keep My commandments." [Exodus 20:1-6, Deuteronomy 5:5-10]

Jesus both gave the Law and fulfilled it:

• “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." [John 14:15]
  
  "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.� [John 14:21]
  
  "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." [John 15:10]
  
  “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you." [John 15:12]
  
  "You are My friends if you do what I command you." [John 15:14]
  
  "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." [Matthew 5:17]

Therefore, Jesus is also part of the One True God. He's just not God the Father.

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Only God can redeem any person, thereby saving him/her:

• "The LORD redeems the soul of His servants, And none of those who take refuge in Him will be condemned." [Psalm 34:22]
  
  "...when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law..." [Galatians 4:4-5]

Jesus redeemed/redeems the Elect:

• "...when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law..." [the pronoun 'His' refers to God, of course, but the pronoun 'He' refers to 'Son' (Jesus); Galatians 4:4-5]
  
  "...Christ Jesus, Who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession..." [Titus 2:13-14]

Therefore, Jesus is also part of the One True God. He's just not God the Father.

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Only God is unchanging, the same yesterday, today, and forever:

• “O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days, Your years are throughout all generations. Of old You founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. Even they will perish, but You endure; and all of them will wear out like a garment; like clothing You will change them and they will be changed. But You are the same, and Your years will not come to an end." [Psalm 102:24-27]

Likewise, Jesus is unchanging, the same yesterday, today, and forever:

• "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." [Hebrews 13:8]

Therefore, Jesus is also part of the One True God. He's just not God the Father.

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I gotta say, I really enjoyed doing that. Debate away.

[PinSeeker]

There are two type of bodies...

We've been through all that in another thread. It was bunk then, it's bunk now, and it will be bunk forever. Start another thread if you want; it's far from the topic at hand. If you do, though, don't expect anyone to agree with you. It's very far from any semblance of mainstream Christian understanding of God's Word.

You're equating the Word with Jesus.

Yes, because the Bible clearly does (in John 1, as per my previous post).

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 20 by myth-one.com]

The Word created everything in the beginning.

The man Jesus came into existence a little over 2000 years ago.

No man existed in the beginning with God.

An interesting take on what John in his first chapter may have intended to convey by his word choices and their placement.

It has long been debated, and there are many opinions that diverge from what we call "orthodoxy".

Ours included.

I agree with your second and third statements.

Your first statement is one way of summarising what John wrote, but I have questions concerning just who and what he is referring to, and just what he could have meant by the terms he uses and how they are used.

Such as: Word/Logos, with God, was God, created by/through.

Grace and peace to you, and to all.

[myth-one.com]

There are two type of bodies...

We've been through all that in another thread. It was bunk then, it's bunk now, and it will be bunk forever.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

One + one = two

Does this thread not accept the scriptures as the inspired word of God?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 20 by myth-one.com]

The Word created everything in the beginning.

The man Jesus came into existence a little over 2000 years ago.

No man existed in the beginning with God.

I agree with your second and third statements.

If so, then Jesus created nothing in the beginning.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 19 by myth-one.com]

Jesus fulfilled that purpose and there is no longer any need for the man Jesus (the Word made flesh) to exist.

The man Jesus ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand as the glorified Jesus of flesh and bones, and as the Lamb.

That's what he said and the NT confirms.

It was proclaimed in Acts by the early church.

"I am Jesus", he told Saul.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 19 by myth-one.com]

Jesus fulfilled that purpose and there is no longer any need for the man Jesus (the Word made flesh) to exist.

The man Jesus ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand as the glorified Jesus of flesh and bones, and as the Lamb.

That's what he said and the NT confirms.

It was proclaimed in Acts by the early church.

"I am Jesus", he told Saul.

Grace and peace to you.

The New Testament also states that flesh and blood man cannot inherit the Kingdom of God:

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;... (I Corinthians 15:49-50)

Man bears the physical image of the earthly.

Believers shall (future tense) also bear the image of the heavenly.

So Jesus ascended into the heavens, but He did not enter the Kingdom of God as a man.

Why would anyone want to enter the spiritual realm as a man?

The Bible states that believers will become equal unto the angels.

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels... (Luke 20:36)

All men die.

Is the spiritual world even equipped to handle natural bodies?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by PinSeeker]

Hi Pinseeker,

This thread has given you plenty to do, so it is easy to see that someone may not be noticed and get no reply.

I can't find any to mine, post 6, can you?

If not, I'd appreciate one from you.

If 3o, which is it?

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

It will always be a mystery to man as to how this was accomplished. That is, where was the Word's spiritual body while He was on the earth?

If it stayed with Jesus, then Jesus was God.

But that can be ruled out as Jesus did not possess Godly powers.

One can know that because Jesus prayed.

Regardless of how it was accomplished, the only change required for the Word to come a human was a body type change from spiritual to physical -- "That which is born of the flesh is flesh."

Jesus was born of the flesh.

Conversely, the only remaining difference between humans and members of the Kingdom of God is a physical body versus a spiritual body.

Thus we must be born a second time of the Spirit as a spirit-- "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)."

No man can explain or understand this because it is not of our world:

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Believers will understand how the Word was made flesh at the Second Coming:

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then, shall I know even as also I am known. (I Corinthians 13:9-12)

It is OK to be somewhat frustrated by not understanding.

The answer to how the Word was made flesh is that we are not supposed to understand how it was accomplished.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 19 by myth-one.com]

Jesus fulfilled that purpose and there is no longer any need for the man Jesus (the Word made flesh) to exist.

The man Jesus ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand as the glorified Jesus of flesh and bones, and as the Lamb.

That's what he said and the NT confirms.

It was proclaimed in Acts by the early church.

"I am Jesus", he told Saul.

Grace and peace to you.

I agree that Jesus ascended to heaven, but he had given up his human-ness when he died and then was resurrected by God. He had sacrificed his human body for us, so that we could live. When he went back to heaven, he was, once again, a spirit person. No physical body.

"So it is written: 'The first man Adam became a living person.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (I Corinthians 15:45)


The scripture says that flesh cannot go to heaven.

"But I tell you this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom, nor does corruption inherit incorruption." (I Corinthians 15:50)


When I was in the churches of the Baptists and fundamentalists and evangelicals, they told us that "flesh and blood can't go to heaven, but flesh and bones can." But it says "flesh and blood," which includes flesh. They seem to forget about the "flesh" part! That can't go into the spirit world either!

So nowhere in the Bible do we find that Jesus ascended with flesh and bones.

He definitely ascended to the right hand of God (not his own right hand!) and is getting ready to put all human governments out of commission and reign over the earth for a thousand years. He is far from useless.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 26 by myth-one.com]

I agree with you about that point---the spirit world does not handle physical bodies. A physical body would be obliterated in a second. God is there in the spirit world, and he created the Sun!! No man could survive in the Sun's presence, never mind God's presence.

"He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." (I Peter 3:18)