How do we define the umpardonable sin?

marco · Post by **marco** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:03 am

In Matthew 12:31 we have: â€œTherefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.â€�

Was Jesus just being dramatic here, trying to frighten his listeners? What on earth is "blasphemy against the Spirit"? Did Jesus, somewhere, elaborate on this dramatic statement?

And in what way is such blasphemy worse than, say, mass murder?

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:07 pm

[Replying to post 250 by Sojournerofthearth]

So you obey every law that god gave in the old testament???

I wish Christians could determine there Orthodoxy about there religion. There are thousands of differing options of what there god wants. One would think that a god would make sure all his people understand the same thing.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:01 pm

[Replying to post 251 by Donray]

So you obey every law that god gave in the old testament???

There are laws, statutes, rituals. I keep the laws God gave to the Children of Israel before the rituals were instituted, the 10 Commandments, the Statutes, the Holy Days... laws of clean and unclean. The rituals were instituted as a stand in to cover sin until Christ came and covered them for. But now he brings His own blood as an atonement once for all. But when the Law was first given, the only sacrifice necessary was for Passover. But God never did away with His Law. He says in many places that it is Eternal.

I wish Christians could determine there Orthodoxy about there religion.
There are thousands of differing options of what there god wants. One would think that a god would make sure all his people understand the same thing.

One would think...

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:10 am

ttruscott wrote:Sins are not better nor worse than each other since absolutely any deviation from HIS righteousness has an ultimate disvalue in GOD's eyes.

So, would a person rather be murdered? Or have his or her parking space stolen at the mall? No difference?

Also by claiming that all sins are the same in the eyes of God, you seem to be saying that God is incapable of making fine moral distinctions. Even human judges are capable of that. Surely God is wiser than any human judge.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:31 pm

[Replying to post 253 by Elijah John]

Sin isn't against other people. Sin is against God. It is His Law that is breached. It's one Law, subdivided into ten parts, a Law to unite man to God. Any breach of any part of the Law, further divides man from God. It brings destruction and it brings death. So God doesn't argue semantics because he is only looking for an end result. And the result of sin is Death.

You may cause a bigger offense among mankind with murder. But All sin brings with it a death penalty.

Soj

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:19 pm

Elijah John wrote:
ttruscott wrote:Sins are not better nor worse than each other since absolutely any deviation from HIS righteousness has an ultimate disvalue in GOD's eyes.
So, would a person rather be murdered? Or have his or her parking space stolen at the mall? No difference?

What has the victim's pov got to do with the immoral quality of the perp's action??? My goodness...

Also by claiming that all sins are the same in the eyes of God, you seem to be saying that God is incapable of making fine moral distinctions. Even human judges are capable of that. Surely God is wiser than any human judge.

HIS very finely tuned sense of righteousness sees the ultimate disvalue of any deviation from HIS righteousness.

The smallest deviation by an elect (ie, one who has been promised salvation) puts Christ on the cross to save him. The smallest deviation by an unbeliever (who has chosen to put himself outside of the promise of salvation) puts him in eternal hell. The disvalue is the same for any and all sin...the difference is found in whether the sinner is under the promise of salvation or has been condemned already, Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son....it is certainly NOT found in any discrepancy of disvalue.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:27 pm

[Replying to post 255 by ttruscott]

The victim's point of view is extremely important. God cares how we treat each other.

Do you really think stealing a parking space is as bad as murder? Do you really think God does?

The RCC categorizes sins as either mortal or venial. Murder is a mortal sin.

And Jesus himself seems to categorize some, with his mention of severe and mild beatings, (I think it's in one of the parables in Luke). And his brother James says that some sins lead to death.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:19 pm

[Replying to post 256 by Elijah John]

The victim's point of view is extremely important. God cares how we treat each other

Of course it's important. Because if we hate a man that we can see how can we love a God that we can't see?

But after David killed Uriah the hittite to steal his wife, his prayer said against You ONLY have I sinned and done this evil in the thy sight. Because even though we harm men with our sins, we do a greater damage to ourselves and our relationship with God. And the damage between us and God is irreversible unless we repent of our attitude and our actions. Sin is against God it is God's law. God can fix whatever damage we do to mankind. What he can't fix is the damage we do when we refuse to repent. Hence, the unpardonable sin.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:13 pm

I have to agree with Sojourner of the Earth. According to what we have as God's law, reinforced(not negated by Yeshua), no sin is pardonable. God pardons at His will.

The law can save NO ONE. Wasn't built that way. It was the God given rules for this world. God offers and forgives in the OT. Christ opened up the opportunities for forgiveness, but still only God forgives.

Does your home country's law save anyone eternally? No, they are just the rules and life is better when followed.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:37 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: I have to agree with Sojourner of the Earth. According to what we have as God's law, reinforced(not negated by Yeshua), no sin is pardonable. God pardons at His will.

The law can save NO ONE. Wasn't built that way. It was the God given rules for this world. God offers and forgives in the OT. Christ opened up the opportunities for forgiveness, but still only God forgives.

Does your home country's law save anyone eternally? No, they are just the rules and life is better when followed.

Exactly, Brian.

The Law is a mirror of what we are. It is an example of what we are striving toward. It is the very definition of how we love God and how we love man. It it's there to reshape everything we think, say and do and it reveals our progress toward becoming converted... It reveals what manner of man we are. Keeping God's law changes or mind and heart whereby God can work with us through His Spirit in us melding with our spirit, thus, becoming a new creation.

Soj

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