Is racism scientific?

Debate and discussion on racism and related issues

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 8060
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Is racism scientific?

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

Is racism scientific?

Answer seems yes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com ... -says/amp/

Isn't our racism just part of our sin nature?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

Daedalus X
Student
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:33 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #111

Post by Daedalus X »

Bust Nak wrote:
That's pretty much how I read it too. The point was the difference between the races are in colour, hair, shape of skull, proportions of the body. What are these differences, if not skin deep?
I should hope that the shape of the skull is not just skin deep, not to mention that it houses the most important organ in the body. You also left out the "etc" that Darwin wrote. The "etc" would include other differences that Darwin considered important when he wrote
Darwin wrote:We have now seen that a naturalist might feel himself fully justified in ranking the races of man as distinct species; for he has found that they are distinguished by many differences in structure and constitution, some being of importance.
Bust Nak wrote:
Darwins racism is like that at Harvard (driven by emotion)...
But why do you believe that? Are you not starting from the premise that Darwin was racist, then fitting what you see around it? Why this and not:

"Slavers' racism is like that at Harvard (driven by emotion), Darwin and Harris’s racism is like that at Google, which is not racism at all, it is a position informed by science."
Darwin spent 8 years scientifically studying and carefully documenting his research on barnacles. If he had spent any time, scientifically studying the differences between the races of humans, we would have found evidence of such research. Since we do not have any such documentation we must conclude that Darwins racism was not informed by any scientific studies and was just his prejudice which was the norm in his day.

User avatar
EarthScienceguy
Guru
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Contact:

Re: Army of Wisdom Vs army of Ignorance

Post #112

Post by EarthScienceguy »

[Replying to post 109 by Yusef]

EarthScienceguy wrote:

[Replying to post 98 by Yusef]So what does the Koran say about racism? Does it saying anything about Jews and Christians being infidels? I would say that might be a little racist.
first of all the phrase "infidels" is not talking about "Racism"!!
return back to the post 24.
Also I quoted that many parts of Qur'an that talks about Christians/Jews have interpretation about Sunni muslims. Look at the below link:
The Koran repeatedly calls on muslims to hate Jews and Christians.

Sura 5:51 commands Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as friends.
Sura 9:29 commands Muslims to fight against Jews and Christians until they either submit to Allah or else agree to pay a special tax.
Sura 2:65-66 and Sura 5:60 contain references to Jews as “apes and swine to be despised and rejected.�


“Take not Jews and Christians for friends… He among you who takes them for friends is one of them… Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scripture before you [Jews and Christians]… But keep your duty to Allah� (verses 51, 55, 57). Extreme intolerance is commanded in Sura 5:33 — “[For those who do not submit to Allah] their punishment is… execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land.�


“Fighting is prescribed for you, and [some of] you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not� (Sura 2:216).

“Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war� (Sura 9:5).

“Fight in the way of Allah… and slay them [the unbelievers] wherever you find them and drive them out… and fight them until… religion is for Allah� (Sura 2:190-193).


I would call it very racist to believe that those that do not believe the way you do are pigs, swine and should be killed.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 7215
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 1388 times
Been thanked: 1565 times

Re: Army of Wisdom Vs army of Ignorance

Post #113

Post by Tcg »

EarthScienceguy wrote:
I would call it very racist to believe that those that do not believe the way you do are pigs, swine and should be killed.
It's not based on ethnicity, therefore it is not racist. Given that it's based on what others believe, it is religious bigotry.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
Yusef
Banned
Banned
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:39 pm
Location: His Earth
Contact:

Re: Army of Wisdom Vs army of Ignorance

Post #114

Post by Yusef »

[Replying to post 110 by EarthScienceguy]

First of all how does these commandments point to Racism!!!!? :-s

Second of all, after this post i posted, the admin marcopolo banned me until the date 2019-12-12!
And this equals to the date 1398-09-21! And the last day of this month is my birthday means 12-21!!
And it shows one here is a member of fremasonery haha..
Well,
Before to be religious, i was decided create a great network of Real-Brotherly-Friends including any religions and any where of the world for solve our own problems... till i was been a religious means introduced. Then i understood that the only Path has been sent down for us from God and it doesn't need to one other than God create any other/new path! and i withdrew that.. the thing the Freemasonary has brought many years before me... haha
And now I know that there is a serious necessary to compiling good people for helping the Saviour[S.A.A] and it shall be occurred by those people themselves...
I'm sleepy and soooo tired and don't know what i write now... just near 3 months is that I pray May God Get me from this world means the Angle Azra'el[pbuh] meet me soon because of i'm seriously tired...
May God Send the Saviour[S.A.A] soon :(
Amen
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 422 times

Post #115

Post by Purple Knight »

I've noticed something interesting about racists having been among them for a large part of my life: They generally do not like the Out of Africa theory.

I think there's a common thread here between this and people detesting the theory of evolution in general.

The thread could possibly be that people don't like to think they come from something lesser.

Personally I don't understand it. Would you rather have come from something greater? Would you rather have devolved?

User avatar
Difflugia
Guru
Posts: 2442
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 2087 times
Been thanked: 1495 times

Post #116

Post by Difflugia »

Purple Knight wrote:I've noticed something interesting about racists having been among them for a large part of my life: They generally do not like the Out of Africa theory.

I think there's a common thread here between this and people detesting the theory of evolution in general.
I've noticed an overlap between racism and creationism, but I think it's more of a demographics thing (rural vs. urban, essentially). I don't think racism and creationism are exactly related, but just happen to be sitting together on the same train. There are probably deeper reasons that that's not merely coincidence, but I don't think racism itself leads to creationism nor vice versa.
Purple Knight wrote:The thread could possibly be that people don't like to think they come from something lesser.

Personally I don't understand it. Would you rather have come from something greater? Would you rather have devolved?
I know you meant this as a rhetorical question, but I think the answer's yes. Part of the creationist thing is that Adam and Eve were perfect prior to the "Fall," when humanity (and everything else) began to degrade. Then the big, final-reel ending will involve God rescuing the righteous and returning them to the perfect state that they lost.

I don't know how familiar you are with creationist apologetics, but I absolutely recommend reading Ken Ham's early book, The Lie: Evolution. This book lays out what is essentially the emotional argument for young-earth creationism. Answers in Genesis has tried to present a veneer of scientific argument over the years, but it's always been far more about the threat evolution presents to a very theologically and socially conservative brand of Christianity than about any scientific arguments.

One of the things that's funniest or saddest (depending on my mood) about Ken Ham is that he apparently spent a lot of emotional effort through the years being scared that his kids were going to turn out gay. One wouldn't think that it had much to do with creationism per se, but homosexuality in general and same-sex marriage in particular has been one of Ken's consistently recurring bugaboos through the years and it has a pretty prominent place in The Lie.

If you want to read a few more creationist books, I put my list of saved links in my member notes.

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 422 times

Post #117

Post by Purple Knight »

Difflugia wrote:I don't think racism and creationism are exactly related, but just happen to be sitting together on the same train. There are probably deeper reasons that that's not merely coincidence, but I don't think racism itself leads to creationism nor vice versa.
I don't either. I've just seen that the common thread in mentality exposes an odd pattern of thinking that may run throughout all humanity.

You may be exactly right that the answer to my question is yes, but it still boggles my mind.

The creationist looks at a chimpanzee and sees something horrible, primitive, emotional, reactive, and violent (and the racist looks at a black person in Africa and sees the same thing).

The common thread is the thought, "How horrible that thing is. I couldn't have possibly come from that."

...But to me, it's bass-ackwards.

I would rather be moving forward.

I would say to my neo-Nazi friend, "Well, that's good then, isn't it? If you look at them and see that, that's evidence of all the progress made. It means you evolved. You evolved in response to a pressure, such as a cold climate and the need to store food, and they stayed the same. Should a fish be upset that there are coelecanths, or happy that they progressed?"

And he'd look at me like I was crazy.

He was even a fellow atheist. He just had the same reaction to the Out of Africa theory as creationists have to evolution, and probably for the same reason.

Truth be told I feel disgust when I look at a chimp, but it makes me happy to be better than the chimp, and happy to be moving in a direction of progression rather than regression.

It may be that in recent human evolution, there actually has been pure regression caused by civilised conditions, and I'm not ruling out that people can actually sense this, which is why degradation makes more sense to them than evolution.

User avatar
pleinmont
Student
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:08 am
Location: UK

Post #118

Post by pleinmont »

Purple Knight wrote:
Difflugia wrote:I don't think racism and creationism are exactly related, but just happen to be sitting together on the same train. There are probably deeper reasons that that's not merely coincidence, but I don't think racism itself leads to creationism nor vice versa.
I don't either. I've just seen that the common thread in mentality exposes an odd pattern of thinking that may run throughout all humanity.

You may be exactly right that the answer to my question is yes, but it still boggles my mind.

The creationist looks at a chimpanzee and sees something horrible, primitive, emotional, reactive, and violent (and the racist looks at a black person in Africa and sees the same thing).

The common thread is the thought, "How horrible that thing is. I couldn't have possibly come from that."

...But to me, it's bass-ackwards.

I would rather be moving forward.

I would say to my neo-Nazi friend, "Well, that's good then, isn't it? If you look at them and see that, that's evidence of all the progress made. It means you evolved. You evolved in response to a pressure, such as a cold climate and the need to store food, and they stayed the same. Should a fish be upset that there are coelecanths, or happy that they progressed?"

And he'd look at me like I was crazy.

He was even a fellow atheist. He just had the same reaction to the Out of Africa theory as creationists have to evolution, and probably for the same reason.

Truth be told I feel disgust when I look at a chimp, but it makes me happy to be better than the chimp, and happy to be moving in a direction of progression rather than regression.

It may be that in recent human evolution, there actually has been pure regression caused by civilised conditions, and I'm not ruling out that people can actually sense this, which is why degradation makes more sense to them than evolution.
You are not better than a chimp, it is better than you, your attitude is very unpleasant indeed. :shock:

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 422 times

Post #119

Post by Purple Knight »

pleinmont wrote:You are not better than a chimp, it is better than you, your attitude is very unpleasant indeed. :shock:
It often frustrates me that moral people will only offer nonconstructive criticism. If you simply stated which aspects of my attitude were morally unacceptable, I would immediately change them.

I have often preferred the company of immoral people in my life for precisely this reason.

Wootah
Savant
Posts: 8060
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Post #120

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Difflugia]
I've noticed an overlap between racism and creationism, but I think it's more of a demographics thing (rural vs. urban, essentially). I don't think racism and creationism are exactly related, but just happen to be sitting together on the same train. There are probably deeper reasons that that's not merely coincidence, but I don't think racism itself leads to creationism nor vice versa.
Have you ever noticed the relationship between evolution and racism? Surely if creationism is on the racism train evolution is the driver.

Here is Mr Dawkins just a day or two ago on eugenics.



Personally, racism is one of those classic logs in our own eye but we want to remove the speck in others.

I do think the Bible has been used to justify many evil things. I also think that is confirmation bias and not from the Bible and all very debatable.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

Post Reply