Jesus didnt carry his cross. Symon did

[Avoice]

If the writer of the book of Mathew is telling the truth when he said a man from Cyrene named Symon carried his cross then maybe it was Symon they crucified. Christians should find that very believable. After all they believe many have been martyrs for Jesus. So why not one more?
The writer doesn't say what Jesus was doing or where he was when Symon was suffering for your sins

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 6 by DB]

It doesnt say hew as on the cross when he saw the marys and the disciples he love. It says they were by the cross. Believe what you want but something doesn't gel with Jesus. The guards took the body down. How do you know if they knew what he looked like? Or ever met him? its very possible thwy just assumed because So you dont think it even possible that anyone took jesus' place? Jesus did say the following:

There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

No matter...a sacrifice outside the temple of Jerusalem is unacceptable. Especially a disgusting place like Golgotha. God said so. Or is he a liar?

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 6 by DB]

It doesnt say he was on the cross when he saw the marys and the disciple that he loved. It says they were by the cross. The guards took the body down. Yeah so? And so they didnt break his legs - that means nothing. How do you know if they knew what he looked like? Or ever met him? its very possible they just assumed it was him. His name was there. So you dont think it even possible that anyone took jesus' place? Why not? I know one thing the narrative at the cross is very, very odd. Jesus did say the following:

"There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends."
Maybe someone loved Jesus. Wouldnt you die to save Jesus? I assume you woukd because you love him. Or dont you think anybody loves him that much? People will die to save their kids so why not Jesus?

No matter...a sacrifice outside the temple of Jerusalem is unacceptable. Especially a disgusting place like Golgotha. God said so. Or is he a liar?

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 7 by tam]

Jesus may have been bigger than you think. He rode in on two . Yes, two of them.! Yeah, the fool who wrote the book of Mathew gave away his method of supposed fulfilled citations. He misread the texf in the Hebrew Scriptures. He thought it said two animals. And so the fool said Jesus fulfilled prophecy by riding ibto Jerusalem on TWO animals. The prophecy says the messiah will enter Jerusalem on a Colt the foal of an ass. Not two. The writer of Mathew, whoever that was (written anonymously) simply scanned the Hebrew Scriptures tryng to mold Jesus into prophetic passages. The writer of Matthew gets cayggt lying tho prophecy he claims Jesus fulfilled is non existant. The gospel writer didnt realize that tgere really are two jackasses in thus story. And one is a liar

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 7 by tam]


The prophecy says the messiah will enter Jerusalem on a Colt the foal of an ass. Not two. The writer of Mathew, whoever that was (written anonymously) simply scanned the Hebrew Scriptures tryng to mold Jesus into prophetic passages.

OR... a later scribe (someone who copied the text) misunderstood and error crept in from that. Like the scribes spoken about in Jeremiah 8:8.



**


You also seem to have avoided the entire point that Christ was indeed upon the cross. No one took his place on the cross. There is no good reason to believe otherwise.





Peace again to you!

[Avoice]

[Replying to tam]

My original was merely food for thought.

You are trying to say it was a scribal error. No. An error would be if it said 'won colt' instead if one colt. Writing the word 'two' is not an error. And it doesn't end there. The writer of mathew quotes Mathew saying that jesus said bring THEM to me. And that he sat on THEM. And said by sitting on THEM it fulfulled prophecy. This is no scribal error. The writer of mathew misunderstood the text when he flipped through the Hebrew Scriptures trying to paint Jesus into prophecy. The writer of mathew even says jesus birth was prophecied in Isaiah 7. Ha! No it isnt. That Herod killing the kids was prophecied. No it wasnt. That returning from Egypt fulfilled prophecy. Anither lie. Dont believe me? Go check. Then if you still feel like defending someone who lied to you go ahead.
.
The Christian testament is not God breathed. If it was true God would have preserved it. But he didn't. Its forever being revised. The original is gone. The Hebrew Scriptures HAVE been preserved. Same today as thousands of years ago. God preserved the truth.

[Red Wolf]

Did Jesus sin by carrying his cross?

Background information……
The Passover Lamb was slaughtered on the 14th day of Abib [Nisan]
Leviticus 23:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover.

You must realize that the Jewish day begins at sundown.
After sundown, on the next day, the Passover lamb is eaten on the first day of the Feast of unleavened bread.
Leviticus 23:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.

On the first day of unleavened bread no laborious work is to be done.
Leviticus 23:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.

Because, the Passover is followed immediately by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 14th of Abib is often called the first day of the Feast. But the 15th of Abib is the first day of the feast of unleavened bread when no laborious work is to be done.
Jesus’ disciples prepared for the Passover on the 14th of Abib.
Mark 14:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, His disciples *said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?�

That evening, after sundown, on the first day of unleavened bread, when no laborious work was to be done, Jesus reclined with his disciples to eat the Passover.
Mark 14:17-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 When it was evening He *came with the twelve. 18 As they were reclining at the table and eating, Jesus said, “Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me—one who is eating with Me.�

Now we all know the rest of the story. Before the next sundown, Jesus was betrayed, tried, convicted, executed, and placed in a tomb.

The question is….Did Jesus carry his cross on a day when no laborious work is to be done?
In Matthew, Mark, and Luke’s gospels the Bible never says that Jesus carried the cross. These gospels, perhaps because they were aware of the prohibition against work, have Simon of Cyrene carrying the cross.
Matthew 27:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
32 As they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross.

But John’s Gospel clearly has Jesus carrying his cross.
John 19:17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 They took Jesus, therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha.

So you tell me….Did Jesus sin by carrying his cross on a day when no laborious work is to be done?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by Red Wolf]

There was no law against carrying things.

So the answer to your question is no, even if Jesus did die on a Sabbath ( which he did not)

JW

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 16 by Red Wolf]

There was no law against carrying things.

So the answer to your question is no, even if Jesus did die on a Sabbath ( which he did not)

JW

Of course there is law against carry things....it is work.
Next Saturday go by a Jewish Synagogue and ask the Jews about this.

[marco]

Of course there is law against carry things....it is work.

The conversation between Jesus and his persecutors would have been interesting, then.

"Sorry, I can do you work. I can't carry this cross - against my religion."

If he had not yet been flogged I'm sure one of the unsavoury mercenary soldiers, not famed for their kindness, would have changed Christ's mind rather sharply. I understand he was beaten pretty badly - at least according to Mel Gibson - and required some help to carry the cross. Apparently he was not allowed to employ his miraculous powers during the crucifixion scenario. That would not have satisfied God.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by Red Wolf]

There was no law against carrying things.

So the answer to your question is no, even if Jesus did die on a Sabbath ( which he did not)

JW

Of course there is law against carry things....it is work.

Says who? You ? Show me the law in the Mosaic code ("thou shalt not carry anything on the Sabbath") and I shall stand corrected. The Pharisees made up all kinds of additional rules (which Jesus rightly ignored) but nothing in the actual law prohibited carrying.

My comment stands.


JW