Yo Mamma Ain't No Virgin

[SallyF]

I posted a dodgy list concerning the dodgy Winter Solstice birthday celebrations of a bunch of dodgy gods and godmen.

Christians often admit that the details of the Nativity of their perhaps-not-so-divine-these-days Divine Leader are as dodgy as anyone else's.

There are also dodgy lists of dodgy godmen whose mammas were supposedly human virgins and whose daddies were "God".

Why do Divine Leaders need virgin mammas …?

Did Christianity steal this idea …?

[Divine Insight]

Did Christianity steal this idea …?

I don't see how it could be anything else. Although I wouldn't even call it "stealing" since the idea was apparently quite popular in many religious fables that preceded Christianity. It was more like just going along with normal superstitious beliefs.

The ancient Greeks certainly had their fair share of demigods (i.e. Men who were born of women who had been impregnated by a God). That's the whole idea behind Jesus. So this was a common idea by the time Christianity came to be.

In fact it should be a dead giveaway when they refer to Jesus as Gods' "only" begotten Son. Why would they need to bother including the qualifier "Only" if they thought this was a one-shot deal? All they would have needed to say is that Jesus was the begotten Son of God. The mere fact that they felt the need to stress that he was the "only" begotten Son was precisely to differentiate him from all the previous religions that made similar claims.

~~~~~

I personally saw a second major problem with this.

Let's say that there really is a God and he watches as men make up false religions and rumors about demigods being born of virgin women? Why then would the real God copy the ideas of men? Especially knowing that it wouldn't even be an original idea?

In fact, why even bother having Jesus born as a human baby? This God supposedly created Adam as a fully developed adult male from the dust of the earth. Why not create Jesus in the same way and just have him miraculously walk into Jerusalem and start his ministry without even being associated with any human parents at all?

The Jews couldn't reject him as an outsider because they would be able to see that he's one of them. They also could not deny his vast knowledge of their culture and religion.

It seems to me if there was a real God who wanted to play tricks on humans this would have been far better. Not only this but look at how many babies Herod supposedly had killed when he was trying to kill the baby Jesus.

Did God know this would happen ahead of time? Or did Herod knock God's socks off by doing something that God could have never foreseen?

But wait, there's more!

Christians claim that this God cannot intervene in the affairs of men lest he violate their free will.

Well DUH?

God supposedly warned Joseph to take Jesus out of harm's way when
Herod was having babies killed.

So if God can do this without thwarting man's free will, then he could do the same thing for all humans and protect them from mass murdered etc, by simply warning them before they are harmed.

Not only this, but if this God was so brilliant why didn't he warn Jesus to leave town once he knew that the authorities were coming to have him crucified?

The only answer to that question would necessarily be that God wanted men to crucify Jesus. But how sick is that?

Not only this, but if it was God's will to have Jesus crucified, then everyone to participated in the crucifixion would have been doing God's Will. Yet another oxymoron.

There's just no way to make this religion work. No matter how hard we try, the God that's behind it would necessarily need to be a sick malevolent criminal who not only condoned all this violence, but actively orchestrated and participated in it as well.

The whole shebang would have had to have been the brainchild of a seriously sick God.

There's just no getting around it.

[marco]

Did Christianity steal this idea …?

Of course Christianity has annexed clever ideas from other religions. Angels are the old junior gods and saints are the demi-gods, otherwise monotheism would be colourless. When we want to find madness, we look in Matthew the Mendacious.

"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." Mat 1: 23

Matthew loves a miracle and he produced more than Jupiter himself. Behold - as he says - all the saintly people who just got out of their graves and walked. Do we really expect him to be telling the truth about a virgin birth? The quaint - "which being interpreted" - is another way of saying I can't find a prophecy with Jesus, but this will do.

A question that arises is: Can truth come from falsehood? But in the coming days truth won't matter any more than the colour of Santa's nose or the names of his reindeer.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]



Did Christianity steal this idea …?

Like almost (if not all) religions, whose intent is to control the masses and take their money, steal a lot of things from a lot of other cultures. Religions are man made and men steal.
The real problem, as I see it, is when followers of these religions refuse to accept that fact and see their religion as true and unshakable.

[Avoice]

Some people can not bare the idea of their mothers having sex. And if they did it then it was only once to create them. Their mama aint like that!! Sex? Oh my

[SallyF]

The notion of "God" breeding with human virgins has been around for a LONG time in MANY cultures.

And …

Like the idea of Jehovah/Holy Ghost breeding with the Virgin Mary …

It's NEVER shown to be anything other than IMAGINARY.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Why care?

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Why care?

It's a debate forum.

Outside of debating Christian theological apologetics it's no more important than whether Apollo was the Son of a God and a Goddess.

[1213]

...
Did Christianity steal this idea …?

No evidence for that. Maybe others stole from Christianity?

[1213]

…The ancient Greeks certainly had their fair share of demigods (i.e. Men who were born of women who had been impregnated by a God). That's the whole idea behind Jesus. So this was a common idea by the time Christianity came to be.

Ancient Greeks probably copied from Jews who have these teachings:

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."
Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

It happened, when men began to multiply on the surface of the ground, and daughters were born to them, that God's sons saw that men's daughters were beautiful, and they took for themselves wives of all that they chose.
Genesis 6:1-2

In fact it should be a dead giveaway when they refer to Jesus as Gods' "only" begotten Son. Why would they need to bother including the qualifier "Only" if they thought this was a one-shot deal? All they would have needed to say is that Jesus was the begotten Son of God. The mere fact that they felt the need to stress that he was the "only" begotten Son was precisely to differentiate him from all the previous religions that made similar claims.

Bible tells that there have been many sons of God. And actually, disciples of Jesus can also be called children of God. Of them, Jesus is the only begotten son.

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name:
John 1:12

Why then would the real God copy the ideas of men

I don’t see any intelligent reason to believe it is copied from others?

Christians claim that this God cannot intervene in the affairs of men lest he violate their free will.

Where do you get that idea? Intervening doesn’t violate free will. Free will doesn’t mean that person is omnipotent and everything goes as the person wants, it means only that person can freely want whatever he wants.

Not only this, but if this God was so brilliant why didn't he warn Jesus to leave town once he knew that the authorities were coming to have him crucified?

Actually, according to the Bible, Jesus knew it well before it happened. So, God would not need to warn him, when Jesus already knew what will happen. And Jesus accepted that. And reason why I believe Jesus accepted that is that so he could resurrect and show that his disciples have no reason to fear death.