Biblical Contradictions

[achilles12604]

Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.


What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

[Biker]

Biker,

You don't have to keep typing out the passage where Jesus said those things, I'm not disagreeing with you that the Bible records those things, what I AM saying is that they have an ice-core from the Greenland ice sheet showing the annual summer and winter water depositions dating back 110,000 years. If you wanted and you had the money and time, you could go and count those rings for yourself. These would show that water didn't cover the whole earth any time in the past 110,000 years.

What I cannot do is go back in time and see if Noah was on an Ark saved from a global flood. I have evidence, you do not. You claim, as McCulloch is pointing out, that your version of events is true because the Bible says so, and that the Bible is true because the bible says so. This is a logical fallacy, it is unreasonable. You have not met the criteria for debate.

So you've got an ice core huh? Well I've got a cherry popsicle. Pray tell what does your ice core have to do with poor ol Noah? Are you going to try and freeze him now, give the guy a break he almost got drowned, now I guess your going to try and freeze him?

Biker

[WelshBoy]

Thus, Biker, you cannot answer, and you cannot refute our contrary evidence. The debate is ours.

[Cathar1950]

Where does the bible claim it is God's word?
You believe with out reason except you think it says it is God's word. But it doesn't.
You have no reasons. You don't even have a good circular reason Biker.
There was no world wide flood. If Jesus said it you have a nuber of possiblities. One he could have been wrong or was using a metaphor based on a story or tale.
Two He may not have said it and it was a fiction of the authors and they were wrong.
You must have reasons or you are irrational in your beliefs, pure and simple.

[McCulloch]

You have answered nothing. All you are doing is appealing to human reason. Big deal. You have not shown it to be the authority in anything. If you will look at the exchange in Genesis 3 especially verse 6, human reasoning against Gods Word is the source of all the problems to begin with so I think your human reason and logic as displayed in the same example could in fact prove to be deadly. You believe a lot of stuff, so what. Why? Why is it superior to the Bible is the exercise.

Because human reasoning is all that we have. Even if you accept that the Bible is the Word of God, you must have come to that conclusion by using human reasoning. If you arrived at the conclusion that the Bible is the Word of God by some other means, please help us to understand.

You use systems of truth available to humans, reason, evidence, and logic, so what what makes them the authority, you have never explained that?
I say they are not superior to the Word of God.

Neither do I. I have more than once stated that if there is a God, his word must be true. Until something convinces me that the Bible or some other resource is the Word of God, human reason remains my only tool for evaluating truth.

How do I know that the Scriptures are truth? I believe that Scripture is Gods Word because it claims to be that.

You will excuse me if I find that less than convincing.

I believe its claims because Scripture is Gods Word. If one has the truth, where would one go to for truth other than that authority?

You have still not established any reason to believe that the Christian Scriptures are God's Word, other than the rather weak apologetic of it claims to.

This is not invalid, for all arguments for an absolute authority must ultimately appeal to that authority for proof: otherwise the authority would not be an absolute or highest authority. You are using a circular reasoning in your claim for the ultimate authority for belief. You assume human reasoning, logic, science, etc to be ultimate authority, prove it, I don't. You are using circularity yourself.

No, I am not. I am not claiming, and you cannot cite any examples where I claim, that human reason is the ultimate authority. It just so happens to be the best basis for belief that I have so far found. Human reason, logic and evidence have shown themselves to be quite reliable sources of information. Religious faith has not. I am willing to be shown otherwise.

You have not even demonstrated Biblical contradiction.

Actually I have, but they have been answered with the unsupported assertion that the Bible is inerrant and true. The two contradictory genealogies of Jesus remain unreconciled.

The truthfulness of the Bible commends itself as being far more persuasive than any other religious books or than any intellectual constructions of the human mind (such as logic, human reason, sense experience, scientific methodology, etc.)
The Bible is more persuasive in the actual experience of life, all of these other candidates for ultimate authority are inconsistent or have shortcomings that disqualify them, while the Bible is fully in accord with what we know about the world around us, about ourselves, and about God.

The Bible is not in accord with what we know about the world around us (for instance its geological age). The Bible is not in accord with what we know about ourselves (for instance the reason for disease and continued existence after death). Apart from what the Bible says, what do we know about God? (I feel another circularity coming.)

So why is rational logically consistent reason the ultimate authority for truth? It wasn't in Adam and Eves case, in fact, its the reason for the problems.

And the only reason you think that you know anything about Adam and Eve is that the Bible tells you so. It it still circular reasoning to rely on the Bible as evidence to believe the Bible.

If you will notice a pattern here, the inerrant Bible is ultimate truth, if some methodology claims more authority in matters of truth, it is wrong.

I do notice a pattern. Repeated unsupported assertions.

[McCulloch]

He remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: "OUT OF EGYPT I CALLED MY SON."

However, when you look at the context of the quote,

[center]When Israel was a youth I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
The more they called them,
The more they went from them;
They kept sacrificing to the Baals
And burning incense to idols.[/center]

it is clear that this was no prophesy at all.

Then what had been spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled:
[center]"A VOICE WAS HEARD IN RAMAH,
WEEPING AND GREAT MOURNING,
RACHEL WEEPING FOR HER CHILDREN;
AND SHE REFUSED TO BE COMFORTED,
BECAUSE THEY WERE NO MORE." [/center]

However, when read in context, the quote from Jeremiah only refers to the Babylonian captivity and was never meant by the author to be a prophesy of Herod's massacre

[center]Thus says the LORD,
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
Lamentation and bitter weeping
Rachel is weeping for her children;
She refuses to be comforted for her children,
Because they are no more."

Thus says the LORD,
"Restrain your voice from weeping
And your eyes from tears;
For your work will be rewarded," declares the LORD,
"And they will return from the land of the enemy.
"There is hope for your future," declares the LORD,
"And your children will return to their own territory. [/center]

[McCulloch]

[Jesus said, ]"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?"

No, I have not read that in the Law. Could you point it out for me?

This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
"I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES;
I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Listen, O my people, to my instruction;
Incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
I will open my mouth in a parable;
I will utter dark sayings of old,
Which we have heard and known,
And our fathers have told us.

In context, this is yet another faux prophesy.

[McCulloch]

Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;

Well not Jeremiah but

I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

There is no indication in the text of Zechariah, that this was meant to be a prophesy beyond the current situation between Israel and Judah.

[Cathar1950]

Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;

Well not Jeremiah but

I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

There is no indication in the text of Zechariah, that this was meant to be a prophesy beyond the current situation between Israel and Judah.

I got a bunch too Mack. I will share later.
I would like to go thru McDowell's so-called prophesies as explained by T. Callahan in his book "Bible Prophesy: Failure or fulfillment".
We can even start with some OT prophecy.

I would your last to examples qualify as contradictions and fiction.
There is a good possibility that not only is the prophecy not a fulfillment but it may be a fiction created by the Gospel writer in order to fulfill a prophecy.
It seems before these gospels were even written believers would go thru the Hebrew writings and find Jesus in everything.
The problem is they didn't seem to know that much about Jesus.
The stories start looking like OT passages strung together to create a fictional, less then human character.
I think we have just got started on contradictions in the bible. But this prophesy angle might be very productive if not fun.
Even the stories of David’s rise to power and beginnings are contradictory.
The best possibilities are that a number of stories were brought together and neither one may be true or factual history.
I think this is the story behind the Jesus stories and the differences we see in the gospels.
I think you are getting somewhere here Mack.

[Biker]

It is so wonderful to be so wise, in ones human eyes, and to rely on ones masterful intellect, and superior human reasoning, and human logic and human senses, to save oneself. But quite puzzling when these (so called) brilliant ones, go suddenly dull, in the pages of the Bible?
Since there are so many Scriptures from the inerrant Word of God you can't understand with your human reasoning and intellect, and can't grasp them when explained, let me give some self explanatory ones for you, simple ones, so your human logic and (superior)human reasoning can digest them for you. Since these are only old (myths) according to you, I am sure you can glean the truthful message out of them though? The only additional problem will be, heeding the knowledge gained, that seems to be the real underlying crux of the matter. Crux, (lit. and fig.)
Genesis 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and YOU WILL BE LIKE GOD, KNOWING good and evil. 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable TO MAKE ONE WISE,she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they KNEW that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings."
Do you ever get the feeling your always stitching things together to cover your ___,(glutimus maximus)?
The only problem with that is, you always are covering up with the wrong thing!
You know human reasoning and brilliant masterful logic has never cut it, when it comes to the important things, the eternal things.
Put the fig leaf away, wrong covering, I know its your brilliant attempt, but, too bad.
Genesis 3:8 "And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, 'Where are you'?"
Well, here we have man, the result of his new found "wisdom", hiding, behind, a tree? Earlier, as the result of, his senses, and his desire to be "wise", even as "wise" as God, and thinking of his belly, he's hiding. Well isn't that a fine "how do you do"? With his brilliant blazing human intellect and human powers of reasoning, empirical proofs, and perfect logic, he's hiding. Peeking around the tree. He blew the gig. A really good gig.
"WHERE ARE YOU" I'm behind the tree, with my new found wisdom. I'm wise! As wise as You! I got my fig leaf on, I'm hangen, behind the tree, hiding.
Where are you? Got your leaf on?
Rather than believing God, believing His Word, you believe a lie. Rather than believing God's Word, you subscribe to and believe in human intellect, human reason, human logic, scientific interpretation, your own way. Your methodology has failed. You refuse to acknowledge God, and refuse to have a relationship with Him. It is your choice. You will be with like minded people for all eternity because of your choice, away from God, away from His people. You will have your desire and beliefs, with those of a like mind and belief. All of you that have everything figured out, that don't need God or want Him around will get your wish. All the folks hiding from God from behind the tree. The ones who have decided that Knowledge makes me like God, who needs God, I'm as smart as Him, in fact I'm smarter than Him. He can't even write a book and get it right. It is always amusing to me, the ones who champion human wisdom and intellect and logic as superior to Gods Word, always seem to be the very one who can't understand the simplest spiritual principles. Oh I forgot, there is no spiritual, doesn't pass the empirical rule, we've got set up to eliminate God.
In the above simple, easy, account (Genesis 3) is the description of man, through appealing to his intellect and reasoning and senses and his desires to be like God, and the decision to place those things above the Word of God, got him dead spiritually, got him dead physically, and got him separated from close personal relationship with God. And thats a whole lota got. Just the wrong got.
If you can't believe it literally, believe it figuratively, take the lesson from it. It is really simple, even for you masterdebaters.

Biker

[Biker]

Welshboy,
Still waiting for those ice core samples, so I can count rings, and then plug it into the Deluge account?

Biker