Doctor Jesus

Argue for and against Christianity

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SallyF
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Doctor Jesus

Post #1

Post by SallyF »

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Faithful Father, thank you that you hear and answer my prayers. The Bible says that, to those who ask, it will be given, to those who seek, it will be found and to those who knock, the door will be opened. Hear my prayer for a successful surgery. Give me assurance that I will be healed. May Christ dwell in my heart through faith so that I, being rooted and grounded in love, may have the strength to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. May I be filled with all the fullness of God. Through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen. https://connectusfund.org/21-short-powe ... to-go-well

Can we demonstrate that the "Faithful Father" (the mythological god Jehovah/Yahweh) is in any way ever involved in human medical procedures, or that Christ dwells in anyone's heart …?

Could this be dangerous superstition …?
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

Elijah John
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Re: Doctor Jesus

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

Don't know the statistics, but I understand that people with faith tend to do better in their recoveries. May be good medical care plus the power of positive thinking, or it may be the power of God appropriated though faith using medical professionals as His instruments. But there are certain "x" factors that we do not really understand that affect outcomes, wouldn't you agree? All else being equal.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #3

Post by Peds nurse »

Hello!

Christ dwelling in our hearts is somewhat subjective. In a perfect world, Christians should exemplify His love. Unfortunately, we miss the mark way too often. As a nurse, I have witnessed the positive side of those who are hospitalized and have faith. I have also witnessed physicians who pray over every surgery. There is something different, a peace about them. Perhaps, worry takes a back seat to faith?

Hope you are doing well!

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Re: Doctor Jesus

Post #4

Post by Tcg »

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

But there are certain "x" factors that we do not really understand that affect outcomes, wouldn't you agree? All else being equal.
There are however factors we do understand:
  • Prayers Don't Help Heart Surgery Patients; Some Fare Worse When Prayed For

    Many -- if not most people -- believe that prayer will help you through a medical crisis such as heart bypass surgery. If a large group of people outside yourself, your family, and your friends joined in intercessory prayer, that should be even more helpful, so such reasoning goes.

    Researchers have been trying to prove this and even to measure the effect. So far, two studies found that third-party prayers bestow benefits, but two others concluded that there are no benefits. Now, the largest study to date, covering 1,800 people who underwent coronary bypass surgery at six different hospitals, supported the latter research.

    Not only that, but patients who knew that others were praying for them fared worse than those who did not receive such spiritual support, or who did but were not aware of it.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 133554.htm
The moral of this story is that if you are going to pray for another's health, don't make the mistake of letting them know you are doing so.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Re: Doctor Jesus

Post #5

Post by marco »

SallyF wrote:

Can we demonstrate that the "Faithful Father" (the mythological god Jehovah/Yahweh) is in any way ever involved in human medical procedures, or that Christ dwells in anyone's heart …?

Could this be dangerous superstition …?
It could be dangerous if he sent a plague of rats to your house, but maybe not so bad if he just sent frogs, especially to a house in Paris.

Somebody somewhere is going to win something after praying and how could anyone ever persuade the recipient that it wasn't from God? When Jesus said: "Knock and it shall be given to you" he forgot to give the number of the door we should knock on. Lots and lots of folk are knocking on the wrong door.

Tart
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Re: Doctor Jesus

Post #6

Post by Tart »

SallyF wrote: Image

Faithful Father, thank you that you hear and answer my prayers. The Bible says that, to those who ask, it will be given, to those who seek, it will be found and to those who knock, the door will be opened. Hear my prayer for a successful surgery. Give me assurance that I will be healed. May Christ dwell in my heart through faith so that I, being rooted and grounded in love, may have the strength to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. May I be filled with all the fullness of God. Through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen. https://connectusfund.org/21-short-powe ... to-go-well

Can we demonstrate that the "Faithful Father" (the mythological god Jehovah/Yahweh) is in any way ever involved in human medical procedures, or that Christ dwells in anyone's heart …?

Could this be dangerous superstition …?
A better question would be, "Do we have faith in such claims?"

And my answer is "absolutely"... Without faith we have nothing...

Is it a dangerous superstition? I think only a fallen world would ever claim this to be dangerous... There is absolutely nothing wrong with prayer in healing, that is absurd... It is almost evil to suggest that this is dangerous... Though you would need to reestablish what you mean by danger, i suspect any answer will just be a run around...

I suppose the only way this could be dangerous is if the prayer didnt work, in which case, let faith prevail even more.


As daniel the prophet said "my God can and will delivery me, and even if he doesnt i will not fall to false teachings" (not exact quote)

So know this "Sally"...
My God can and will deliver us, and even if he doesn't, the battle is already won.

Tart
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Post #7

Post by Tart »

17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.� (Daniel 3)

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SallyF
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Post #8

Post by SallyF »

The term faith healing is best known in connection with Christianity. A number of its adherents interpret the Bible, particularly the New Testament, as teaching belief in – and practice of – faith healing. They claim that faith alone can cure blindness, deafness, cancer AIDS, development disorders, anemia among other diseases.

Thus when one is afflicted by any of these diseases, they would rather wait for divine intervention to cure them instead of seeking medical help in hospital.

Claims that prayer, divine intervention, or the ministrations of an individual healer can cure illnesses have been popular throughout history. Miraculous recovery has been attributed to many techniques commonly lumped together as “faith healing�. It can involve prayer, a visit to a religious shrine, or simply a strong belief in a supreme being.

They back up their claim by citing a number of biblical miracles when Jesus cured a number of people because they had faith in him to heal them like the leper, the centurion servant, the dumb and blind man and even raising Lazarus from the dead among others.
https://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/read/91393

The above excerpt is from a Rwandan newspaper.

Not a soul has demonstrated that Jehovah or Jesus or the Holy Ghost exist anywhere other than in the minds of believers, let alone that they assist doctors.

We have no evidence that we are dealing with anything more than superstition.

And - as our Rwandan friends tell us - some Christians choose faith over medicine.

Christianity can be dangerous superstition.

Image

(As an aside, I have African friends who tell of resistance at home against this foreign superstition, introduced by the Christian colonists that keeps the "natives" docile and obedient. From the same article: But faith healing has often drawn ridicule from secular circles, with a number of people saying that those who believe in it are just intoxicated by the “opium of the masses.� That is religion.)
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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Tcg
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Re: Doctor Jesus

Post #9

Post by Tcg »

Tart wrote:
I suppose the only way this could be dangerous is if the prayer didnt work, in which case, let faith prevail even more.
This is a perfect representation of faith. If it works, that is a reason to keep the faith. When it doesn't work, keep the faith any way in fact grasp onto the failed faith even more.

Of course for this scheme to work, one must never evaluate the facts involved.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Post #10

Post by Tart »

Without faith we are dead in sin... A doctor can do nothing but prolong your suffering, and give you more time to be bound to sin...

Faith can set you free...

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