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marco
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:51 am  What proves the Bible is God's truth? Reply with quote

If an alien came to Earth and read the Bible what would tell him that it was a God-inspired piece of literature? Would he not see it as an attempted history of some tribe who liked the idea they were the favourites of a God?

What has caused modern folk to accept Hebrew history as opposed to Greek or Babylonian or Egyptian and through the agency of somebody with the nickname "Anointed Saviour" develop a system of varied beliefs? Instead of wooden poles they have built huge buildings.

What's the objective test that the Bible comes from God?
Why have people adopted the Jewish scripture, yet have rejected them in favour of an update?
MPG Recipient Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 21: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:28 pm
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Re: What proves the Bible is God's truth?

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1213 wrote:

marco wrote:


Why have people adopted the Jewish scripture, yet have rejected them in favour of an update?


I have adopted Bible, because I think it has great wisdom and truth. For me Bible is mainly about what is good and right and I think it is correct. For me it is not so much matter of belief, but matter of understanding. It has been great help for me. But obviously Bible is also history book and about the future. I believe the history, because the teachings are so good that I trust that also the history is correct. Person who has good teaching, doesn’t probably lie. And the future is easy to believe, when I see what people are.

One reason why I believe is also that atheist have failed to show any mistake in the Bible and make lot of false claims about the Bible. If Bible would be wrong, there would be no need to make lies about it, to show it is not correct.

There are numerous errors in the OT....here is an interesting mistake

It’s important to realize that if the Old Testament is not true, then it is impossible for the New Testament to be true because the New Testament is based on the foundation of the Old Testament.
The following demonstrates that the writers of the OT did not have an accurate knowledge of astronomy and therefore the OT could not have been inspired by an all knowing God. [All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 2Timothy 3:16]

The God of the Bible promised Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the Heavens. [I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed Genesis 26:4 see also Genesis 15:5, Genesis 22:17, Exodus 32:13]
After Israel was in slavery to Pharaoh, the Exodus from Egypt, and the forty years in the wilderness, Moses declared that God had made Israel as numerous as the stars in Heaven. [The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are this day like the stars of heaven in number. Deuteronomy 1:10,see also Deuteronomy 10:22]
Moses declared that God’s promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars had now been fulfilled.

So how many people comprised the nation of Israel? How many stars in the Heavens did the OT writers think there were?

After the Exodus from Egypt, Moses and the leaders took a census of the men over 20 years of age who were fit for war, and there were 603,550 men. [So all the numbered men of the sons of Israel by their fathers’ households, from twenty years old and upward, whoever was able to go out to war in Israel, even all the numbered men were 603,550. Numbers 1:45-46]
Just prior to the entrance into “the promised land,” when Moses declared that God’s promise to make Israel as numerous as the stars had been fulfilled, Moses took another census of the men of Israel, and there were 601, 730. [These are those who were numbered of the sons of Israel, 601,730. Numbers 26:51]

Based on these census figures, scholars have calculated that Israel numbered no more than four million men, women, and children. The writers of the OT believed the stars in the Heaven numbered a paltry four million stars. But modern astronomers know that the stars in the Heavens number in the billions. An all knowing God would have known how many stars He created. Surely this is positive proof that a God did not inspire the writing of the Old Testament.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 22: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:16 pm
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Red Wolf wrote:


An all knowing God would have known how many stars He created. Surely this is positive proof that a God did not inspire the writing of the Old Testament.


That is a good illustration, Red Wolf, and would usually defeat any opposition.... but not religious opposition. When it was said: "As numerous as the stars" this was just one of those nice similes not meant to specify a number. Wordsworth used the same simile when he compared his famous crowd of daffodils to the stars in the Milky Way.

Another trick is to question the meaning of stars - or take the word that has been translated as "numerous" and it will have an unusual meaning, known only to bible scholars. The result is that though there seem to be contradictions it is in fact the Devil who is supplying false information to make the untutored believe there are mistakes in the Holy Book. Perish the thought!

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 23: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:40 pm
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The Second Day
6 God/Elohim said, “I command a dome to separate the water above it from the water below it.” 7And that's what happened. God/Elohim made the dome 8and named it “Sky.” Evening came, then morning—that was the second day.
https://biblehub.com/cev/genesis/1.htm

This is also false.



And this is a false representation of biblical mythology.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 24: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 pm
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[Replying to post 21 by Red Wolf]

Quote:
Based on these census figures, scholars have calculated that Israel numbered no more than four million men, women, and children. The writers of the OT believed the stars in the Heaven numbered a paltry four million stars. But modern astronomers know that the stars in the Heavens number in the billions. An all knowing God would have known how many stars He created. Surely this is positive proof that a God did not inspire the writing of the Old Testament.

Putting aside the obvious discrepancy between the number of Israelites and the number of stars, a mobile metropolis of around 4 million people surviving on manna for 40 years presents its own problems. Even the biblical descriptions of manna are contradictory.

Manna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

In Exodus manna is described as being "a fine, flake-like thing" like the frost on the ground. Exodus adds that manna was comparable to hoarfrost in color, and similarly had to be collected before it was melted by the heat of the sun, and was like a coriander seed in size but white in color.

It is described in the Book of Numbers as arriving with the dew during the night. Numbers describes it as having the appearance of bdellium, adding that the Israelites ground it and pounded it into cakes, which were then baked, resulting in something that tasted like cakes baked with oil. The Israelites were instructed to eat only the manna they had gathered for each day. Stored manna "bred worms and stank": the exception being that stored the day before the Sabbath (Preparation Day), when twice the amount of manna was gathered. This manna did not spoil overnight.

Magic stuff indeed. Curiously, manna melts in the heat of sun but can be collected, ground and pounded into cakes then baked.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 25: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:00 pm
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Red Wolf wrote:

There are numerous errors in the OT....here is an interesting mistake… … But modern astronomers know that the stars in the Heavens number in the billions. An all knowing God would have known how many stars He created. Surely this is positive proof that a God did not inspire the writing of the Old Testament.


None of these say that the number is exactly the same as the number of stars.

Yahweh your God has multiplied you, and, behold, you are this day as the stars of the sky for multitude.
Deuteronomy 1:10

Your fathers went down into Egypt with seventy persons; and now Yahweh your God has made you as the stars of the sky for multitude.
Deuteronomy 10:22

So all those who were numbered of the children of Israel by their fathers' houses, from twenty years old and upward, all who were able to go out to war in Israel; even all those who were numbered were six hundred three thousand five hundred fifty.

Numbers 1:45-46

These are those who were numbered of the children of Israel, six hundred one thousand seven hundred thirty.
Numbers 26:51

It is said that they are like stars, great number.

And also, why should I believe the number you give for stars is correct? It wouldn’t be fist time “scientists” are wrong.

Sorry, I think you have failed, as all atheists before you.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 26: Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:55 pm
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Re: What proves the Bible is God's truth?

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1213 wrote:

Red Wolf wrote:

There are numerous errors in the OT....here is an interesting mistake… … But modern astronomers know that the stars in the Heavens number in the billions. An all knowing God would have known how many stars He created. Surely this is positive proof that a God did not inspire the writing of the Old Testament.


None of these say that the number is exactly the same as the number of stars.

Yahweh your God has multiplied you, and, behold, you are this day as the stars of the sky for multitude.
Deuteronomy 1:10



Sure they do. You've simply chosen an unclear translation to hide that fact:

    Deuteronomy 1:10 10 The Lord your God has multiplied you, and behold, you are today as numerous as the stars of heaven. [ESV]

Quote:

Your fathers went down into Egypt with seventy persons; and now Yahweh your God has made you as the stars of the sky for multitude.
Deuteronomy 10:22
[i]


    Deuteronomy 10:22 22 Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons, and now the Lord your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven. [ESV]


Quote:

Sorry, I think you have failed, as all atheists before you.


You've provided no verifiable evidence that this claim is true.



Tcg

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 27: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:58 am
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The prophecies that have come to pass concerning the nation of Israel and the land

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 28: Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:43 pm
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Tcg wrote:

Sure they do. You've simply chosen an unclear translation to hide that fact:


Numerous means that there is great number. It is not exact, as it would be, if it would say “number is”.

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