Denominations

[Menotu]

Under the Christian umbrella, there are many denominations believing in the same god. But they tend to have differing ways to get the same end result.

An outsider comes along and looking in with no bias (having never heard of such a concept), he says "Wait: if you believe in the same god, and want the same thing, why are you arguing among each other? Shouldn't the same god have told you all the same thing? Why all the different denominations?"

Once the outsider reads the four gospels, they will understand a bit more:
"Wait: your god talked to a few different guys over different years and told them the same story, but different?"
You may say "Well, it was interpreted differently by these different people."
The outsider would then say " OK, but this god...he didn't change his story yes? So why didn't he tell each of these people the same thing in a manner in which they would write the same thing? Even if it was a different writing style, the jest of the story would remain true, right?"

So the outsider already has his eyebrow raised in suspicion.

Then he sees all the different denomination and their specific means to the same end (once saved always saved, Purgatory, Hell, asking for constant forgiveness, Jesus reappearing in the Americas and South Africa, people ascending, Adam/Eve/Ruth, etc) and he asks you the following set of questions:

"How can you accept these differences from a god that, you indicated, hasn't changed?
Why do you have to have faith in all this confusion and, at times, contradiction, in order to have something to believe in?
Why can't your god provide to you - all of you - the same story that's believable, especially considering he can do anything he wants?
Why does your god allow all these denominations?"

Is there a definite answer other than "'cause God says" or the like?
Is there something that we can point to that says "My thinking is right because...."?
Or is it all a personal belief system?
And if that's the case, why all the concern over what others believe in (or not), how they live their lives and what they do in their families?

[Clownboat]

Here we have another human inventing another flavor/denomination of the Christian religion.

I guess you have forgotten I claim to have been taught this theology and do not claim to have made it up...otherwise I guess you'd be calling me a liar and you are too correct with the rules to do that, eh?

Jesus called those who refused to follow His new revelations about the Messiah snakes and vipers...

I stand corrected.
Ttruscott is not the human that made up this theology.

Another mechanism has been displayed though for the creation of denominations. Thanks again.

Once a god concept/theology has been imagined, it takes others to find the claims as credible and at some point may be concidered its own denomination/theology.

One human convincing another human to believe a claim is a daily occurance and not an assurance that the truth is being told obviously.

No gods are needed for the creation of denominations. That much has been shown.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 25 by Clownboat]

Homosexuals and those who worship the wrong god are often easy targets.

Being agnostic/ignostic or atheistic would help you to have less enemies.

Many people need religion and need somewhere to go when they die. I understand this. I just wish religions weren't so devisive while providing this need to some of our fellow humans.

(I also wish our fellow humans would stop projecting this need of theirs on to the rest of humanity).

Any "Christian" that teaches homosexuals and those who worship other gods are the Christian's enemy either is not a Christian or they do not know Scripture. Because the Bible states that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.

People are the casualties of the war not the enemy in the war.

[Diagoras]

[Replying to post 28 by Diagoras]

Playing devils advocate here, it seems to me there are too many unknown variables to dismiss the idea based in math.

<snip>

Given an omnipotent God any numerical combination can be made to work...

I’m actually in complete agreement with you, and that’s really my point. All we have are assumptions - there’s zero facts or evidence that we can use to test the idea of this ‘pre-creation’.

You or I, or anyone at all could equally assume just about anything about pre-creation, and then freely alter, embelish or discard our assumptions at any time if they didn’t feel right. With no way of testing, we’re just left with stories that we tell to ourselves and others.

Where’s the value in that? It gets us no closer to the truth.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 25 by Clownboat]

Homosexuals and those who worship the wrong god are often easy targets.

Being agnostic/ignostic or atheistic would help you to have less enemies.

Many people need religion and need somewhere to go when they die. I understand this. I just wish religions weren't so devisive while providing this need to some of our fellow humans.

(I also wish our fellow humans would stop projecting this need of theirs on to the rest of humanity).

Any "Christian" that teaches homosexuals and those who worship other gods are the Christian's enemy either is not a Christian or they do not know Scripture. Because the Bible states that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood.

People are the casualties of the war not the enemy in the war.

You're funny!
Feel free to battle against your principalities, powers and the rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places.

In reality, you are dealing with flesh and blood though. The Scottsmans that you claim are not Christian or that they don't know scripture are actually real humans that identify as Christian. They are not principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places. That's just silly to think so IMO.

Nonsensical Bible verses not withstanding.

Jude 1:19 ESV
It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. (Flesh and blood)

1 Corinthians 3:3 ESV
For you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

1 Peter 3:15 ESV
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you (even flesh and blood) for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 28 by Diagoras]

Playing devils advocate here, it seems to me there are too many unknown variables to dismiss the idea based in math.

<snip>

Given an omnipotent God any numerical combination can be made to work...

I’m actually in complete agreement with you, and that’s really my point. All we have are assumptions - there’s zero facts or evidence that we can use to test the idea of this ‘pre-creation’.

You or I, or anyone at all could equally assume just about anything about pre-creation, and then freely alter, embelish or discard our assumptions at any time if they didn’t feel right. With no way of testing, we’re just left with stories that we tell to ourselves and others.

Where’s the value in that? It gets us no closer to the truth.

Math can't get us closer to the truth, but the bible (imho) can. The bible accurately explains mankinds true history, reveals what's behind the physical and explains the reasons for why we are where we are now.

[Diagoras]

Math can't get us closer to the truth, but the bible (imho) can. The bible accurately explains mankinds true history, reveals what's behind the physical and explains the reasons for why we are where we are now.

I’ll acknowledge that you’re expressing an opinion here, but to put the opposing view, in my own opinion, the amount of information that the bible ‘reveals’ about what’s ‘behind the physical’ is scant, to put it mildly.

To bring the point back to the opening post, it’s this paucity of information that then drives such a large variety of interpretations of ‘spiritual realms’ amongst different denominations. The reason they all survive, despite often contradicting each other to varying degrees can be attributed to having no actual testable evidence - only fragments of stories.

[JehovahsWitness]

Math can't get us closer to the truth, but the bible (imho) can. The bible accurately explains mankinds true history, reveals what's behind the physical and explains the reasons for why we are where we are now.

I’ll acknowledge that you’re expressing an opinion here, but to put the opposing view, in my own opinion, the amount of information that the bible ‘reveals’ about what’s ‘behind the physical’ is scant, to put it mildly.

To bring the point back to the opening post, it’s this paucity of information that then drives such a large variety of interpretations of ‘spiritual realms’ amongst different denominations. The reason they all survive, despite often contradicting each other to varying degrees can be attributed to having no actual testable evidence - only fragments of stories.

There's no denying that the bible is open to much interpretation, this is only problematic for those that don't believe what it says anyway, namely that all (true) interpretation belongs to God. Since I believe in an omnipotent God I trust he will reveal the correct understanding of his word, to his people in his own due time.



JW

[bluegreenearth]

Math can't get us closer to the truth, but the bible (imho) can. The bible accurately explains mankinds true history, reveals what's behind the physical and explains the reasons for why we are where we are now.

I’ll acknowledge that you’re expressing an opinion here, but to put the opposing view, in my own opinion, the amount of information that the bible ‘reveals’ about what’s ‘behind the physical’ is scant, to put it mildly.

To bring the point back to the opening post, it’s this paucity of information that then drives such a large variety of interpretations of ‘spiritual realms’ amongst different denominations. The reason they all survive, despite often contradicting each other to varying degrees can be attributed to having no actual testable evidence - only fragments of stories.

There's no denying that the bible is open to much interpretation, this is only problematic for those that don't believe what it says anyway, namely that all (true) interpretation belongs to God. Since I believe in an omnipotent God I trust he will reveal the correct understanding of his word, to his people in his own due time.



JW

How do those who believe determine which interpretation was actually revealed by God and which interpretation was mistakenly thought to have been revealed by God? Will the divinely revealed truth come with a signed affidavit from the omnipotent God? The Bible indicates those who have the truth are known by their fruits. I supposed this means Secular Humanists must know the truth because the fruit they bear has been the most beneficial to society.

[JehovahsWitness]

How do those who believe determine which interpretation was actually revealed by God and which interpretation was mistakenly thought to have been revealed by God? Will the divinely revealed truth come with a signed affidavit from the omnipotent God?

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe God guides the faithful of the correct interpretation by means of his holy spirit. Belivers know if the interpretation is correct if it harmonizes with all the other scriptures in the bible, if it lines up with proven present or past reality, if futures events happens as announced and/or if the interpretation leads to the producing of bible ordained "fruit".




JW



NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[bluegreenearth]

How do those who believe determine which interpretation was actually revealed by God and which interpretation was mistakenly thought to have been revealed by God? Will the divinely revealed truth come with a signed affidavit from the omnipotent God?

We (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe God guides the faithful of the correct interpretation by means of his holy spirit. Belivers know if the interpretation is correct if it harmonizes with all the other scriptures in the bible, if it lines up with proven present or past reality, if futures events happens as announced and/or if the interpretation leads to the producing of bible ordained "fruit".




JW



NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

How do believers determine if what you've described above is a reliable method for acquiring knowledge of the truth and not a product of confirmation bias? It definitely smells, walks, talks, and looks like confirmation bias.