Patriotism Activists and Non-American Christians

[questioner4]

For Patriotism Activists:

1. Do you believe that Americans have to be patriotic to the US? If so, why?

2. Do you feel that it's okay for an American to prefer another country over the US? If not, why?

3. Do you feel that it's okay for an American to prefer the culture (music, movies, etc.) of another country over the US's culture? If not, why?

For Non-American Christians:

1. Do you feel that Christianity in the US is too Americanised?

2. Do you support the war in Iraq?

3. How high are abortion and same-sex marriages on you priority, when it comes to politics?

[The Persnickety Platypus]

First and foremost, patriotism requires the ability to question your government. To blindly follow anything isnt looking out for its best interest. It is simply going with the flow.

Then the flag toters/nothing is America's fault crowd are not really patriotic?

Patriotism is merely "love and devotion to one's country". Most people who are that devoted to their country are negligent to recognize its faults. I don't think that one needs to question their government in order to be a patriot. Even more reason to stay away from the entire concept.

[questioner4]

Well, Vladd does make some good points about how US patriotism should be. I also agree with TPP that it's better to have loyalty for all humanity, rather than just your own country.

I do tend to wonder how the flag toters/'nothing is America's fault' crowd would feel about Americans liking Canadian music - bands like The Tragically Hip, The Tea Party, Blue Rodeo, and Moist. I bet this would be the same crowd as the 'buy American' crowd. I would think, though, that by telling Americans that they should not like bands like The Tragically Hip or Moist - that would be going against what America stands for, no? After all, we should value things like freedom of choice and freedom of thought.

[AlAyeti]

The decay of society should be a major concern.

But as an American Agnostic, I do think my country has developed an overreactive knee jerk response mechanism to loyalty.

"Knee-jerk or watching liberals take over the mind control of our future? The children of MTV will be votong in the next election. Their world is run by "knee-jerk" personal pleasure and damn the consequecnces. They believe that "science" will come to the rescue of both global warming and AIDS, when they will not realize that personal choice behavior is killing their generation more effectively than pie-in-the-sky dreams of being rescued at the last minute.

One that is unhealthy in my opinion. I think we should be apalled at our actions in Iraq and the Abortion issue + gays getting married dont rank at all.

Iraq is over and done with. They have a free country, a constitution and the right to vote in a Democratic state. If the Iraqi's don't want to keep their freedom let them rot. Our soldiers have delivered the victory. Now it is time to bring them home as heros. Abortion and homosexulas are a sign that the decay of morality and redefinition of truth is our greatest enemy. While an economy keeps a country running, disease and licentiousness kills a country one person at a time like an STD.

I am male and I guarantee you I will never have an abortion.

"Unwanted pregnacy" is a two-way street. The perspective that it is a woman's problem highlights and showcases the problem of licentiousness killing a healthy society.

And since I am not gay, I dont plan on marrying any men.

Licensing chaos will allow chaos.

[Vladd44]

Iraq is over and done with.

Tell that to the Soldiers and Iraqi civilians that will die over the next 12 months of our continued occupation. Or perhaps you would like me to get you the addresses of the familys that have lost members this week.

They have a free country, a constitution and the right to vote in a Democratic state. If the Iraqi's don't want to keep their freedom let them rot. Our soldiers have delivered the victory.

I see you have a very different view or freedom, rights and victory than I do.

[juliod]

Iraq is over and done with. They have a free country, a constitution and the right to vote in a Democratic state. If the Iraqi's don't want to keep their freedom let them rot. Our soldiers have delivered the victory. Now it is time to bring them home as heros.

Here we see the typical american jingoist.

We invade a foreign country, kill tens of thousands, destabilize and fractionate the society, and if it doesn't all work out it their fault.

I agree with Al that we should pull the troops out immediately. I wonder if he will hold it against his conservative political leaders that they will not do so? We're still building those massive bases, and the point of the invasion was to control Iraqi oil, as was published policy long before the invasion. This policy is still relevant and is still the basis for our actions.

DanZ

[juliod]

I see you have a very different view or freedom, rights and victory than I do.

Hee hee. Patriot definitions:

Freedom = Foreign occupation.

Rights = Religio-Ethnic conflict.

Victory = Defeat.

Remember that the Iraqi "government" doesn't control the military (either the US or the Iraqi forces), the police, the 15K+ "security" contractors, the budget, the oil industry, the ports and borders, the prisons, nor even the civil service administration. Most of that is controlled by the US DoD, and the rest by the US State Depertment.

The whole war was a catastrophe, from beginning til now. It was predictable, was predicted, and anyone who supports the war is a "patriot" only in the most negative aspect of the term.

DanZ

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Hee hee. Patriot definitions:

Freedom = Foreign occupation.

Rights = Religio-Ethnic conflict.

Victory = Defeat.

Defend your country= attack a helpless one

Charity= Pursue self interests

Terrorists=
(1) Every Muslim
(2) Liberals
(3) People who hate America

Christian values=
(1) Start wars
(2) Support the rich
(3) Discriminate against non-Christians
(4) Rape the environment

Communists= Democrats

Spread Democracy= Invade countries for their oil






We should make a dictionary.

Anyway, so now Iraq is "free" (if that is what you call it). Great. Who's country are we going to "improve" next? Somalia? Rwanda? Mali? Tanzania? Any other country that actually needs the help?

No, of course not. Those places offer no benefit for us. We would sooner invade Luxembourg.



Monaco has weapons of mass destruction. Pass it on.

[AlAyeti]

Hee hee. Patriot definitions:

Freedom = Foreign occupation.

Rights = Religio-Ethnic conflict.

Victory = Defeat.

When Saddam was pulled from his little rat hole, the war was won and a complete success. I somewhat agree with portions of your point of view. But my patriotism does not denigrate American soldiers. Yours does. The GOP can be out on their butts in just a few short years. It would be horrible for the American family and children in general but we have the freedom to ruin our own country by electing Liberals. Of course the GOP may run Guiliani and he is more like the MTV crowd than an honest conservative.

Remember that the Iraqi "government" doesn't control the military (either the US or the Iraqi forces), the police, the 15K+ "security" contractors, the budget, the oil industry, the ports and borders, the prisons, nor even the civil service administration. Most of that is controlled by the US DoD, and the rest by the US State Depertment.

Try using some reasoning powers on Arab politcs. Please tell the audience what Islamic and Arabic country is run even slightly by "the people?" And remember not all us are hypnotized by the New York Times.

The whole war was a catastrophe, from beginning til now.

What war are you talking about? If it is the Iraqi war I believe that complete control of a country and driving tanks into its capital and major cities is a complete victory in anyones opinion. Well, of course not a terrorist. It just supplied all sorts of good little victims. But wars are won when the leaders are ousted and the government changes the way it is run by the victors.

It was predictable, was predicted, and anyone who supports the war is a "patriot" only in the most negative aspect of the term.

"Some" people, may indeed feel complelled to label American soldiers as losers but that is usually based solely on their cowardice and the content of a character devoid of any decent morallity.

How many "peace proponents" (hippies, pre-Liberals) were responsible for the killing fields and other atrocities set up after these Anti-War apathists made politicians America leave Vietnam? 100% of the victims in my opinion.

To say that the Iraq war is not a success is not in keeping with the history of "succesful" wars. The day that the constituition was VOTED ON AND APPROVED by free Iraqi citizens, our soldiers in that theatre of operation stood side by side with the greatest heros from our greatest war victories.

The only problem America faces is the hypocrites that will not let our miltaries fight wars the way they should be fought. Too many journalists are making American policy and too many "progressives" march zombie-eyed along with an ideology that pushes condoms and abortions and same-sex marriage but will not lift a finger to really help people suffering worldwide.

There I side with the conservatives time and time again.

[questioner4]

I do tend to wonder how the flag toters/'nothing is America's fault' crowd would feel about Americans liking Canadian music - bands like The Tragically Hip, The Tea Party, Blue Rodeo, and Moist. I bet this would be the same crowd as the 'buy American' crowd. I would think, though, that by telling Americans that they should not like bands like The Tragically Hip or Moist - that would be going against what America stands for, no? After all, we should value things like freedom of choice and freedom of thought.

So, do you guys agree, or disagree? Do you think it's okay for an American to like The Tragically Hip - or do you think that makes him or her a bad American?

[McCulloch]

So, do you guys agree, or disagree? Do you think it's okay for an American to like The Tragically Hip - or do you think that makes him or her a bad American?

I think it would be OK. It would be a good idea if the US government would start to live up to their committment on softwood lumber as well.