Should Atheists Use God for their own benefit?

[BwhoUR]

Atheists use God, Jesus and the Bible to argue with the religious in religious debate and it is assumed we do so in order that we can prove something based on the "evidence" we have. Evidence which religious persons bring up as proof we argue with, even though we don't believe the Bible was written by God, etc.

It is obvious when we do so here, in an open forum when we admit we are Atheists. Is it also okay to use god or religion for our own good in other ways? Can we hide our Atheism when we do it? Here is an example: My City is run by conservative Christians, I grow pot legally in my State (stay with me, people) My grow area was lacking a posted reccomendation. I was cited and fined $100.00. I of course am fighting the fine on principle because under normal circumstances, an oversight like this would call for a written notice and 10 days to fix with no fine and the Code provides for that. Since the Christian cops around here think pot is for sinners, I felt it would help me to even the playing field to say my medicine was natural, "as God intended."

Was this moral? Does it matter if I don't believe that but know that they might? If I know God influences people, is it okay to use the power for good?

[BwhoUR]

I hear what your saying, that those with strong anti-drug beliefs would feel no differently about weed than heroin, even though the there is a process for making a poppy into heroin unlike marijuana which needs no processing. But if there is a chance to manipulate them I see no harm in trying, is there any harm?

If manipulating Christians is immoral than clearly so is the Bible and the preachers who preach from it.

From my perspective the most likely "harm" that might come from this is your very own feelings of guilt for having done it. Apparently this issue is very close to your own personal values, especially if you feel you need to bounce this off other people.

My suggestion to you would be to remain true to your own values. That's the paramount issue. Apparently you seem to feel that preying on the superstitions of other people would be "immoral" by your standards. If that's the case, then don't do it, you'll only feel bad about letting yourself down in terms of your own moral standards.

On the other hand, if you feel that using people's superstitions against them is "moral" then have at it. Like I say, preachers do this all the time. Especially the Television Evangelists. For them it's nothing more than a money-making racket based entirely upon preying on the superstitious beliefs of others.

And now that I have compared your proposed behavior with that of television evangelists, what do you think you should do?

I have already done it, with the disdain in my heart for people who would judge me based on the Christian bible. I don't think it is moral, but it might be just. Still wondering where I would draw the line though. Certainly before an evangelist would, or Hitler, but the exact line is unclear. Lets see if I win the day and I will check myself.

[Divine Insight]

I don't think it is moral, but it might be just.

Well, you certainly won't get any argument from me on that one. Especially if the Christians you are toying with are already being obnoxious about their superstitions.

I think you have a point there too. Television evangelists are taking grave advantage from the superstitions of people who never did anything at all to them.

At least you are only using this against those who are attempting to push their superstitious beliefs onto you in some negative way.

So perhaps that is "justice" after all.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

Atheism (or secularism) is the most likely truth of reality. That's just the most practical rational answer. Period.

You appear to have climbed every mountain and swum every river I posed to you but the more practical rational answer is that the world contains plenty of good and nearly everything has a good utility.

Christians cling to the good.

What justification do atheists have for clinging to the good?

Also given that whenever we discuss atheism/secularism we end up discussing subjectivity and determinism it is really a matter of not examining the alternative that has you arrive at your conclusions. To examine atheism/secularism and to believe in subjectivity and determinism is truly not rational. But who examines their own beliefs?

[Goat]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

Atheism (or secularism) is the most likely truth of reality. That's just the most practical rational answer. Period.

You appear to have climbed every mountain and swum every river I posed to you but the more practical rational answer is that the world contains plenty of good and nearly everything has a good utility.

Christians cling to the good.

What justification do atheists have for clinging to the good?

Also given that whenever we discuss atheism/secularism we end up discussing subjectivity and determinism it is really a matter of not examining the alternative that has you arrive at your conclusions. To examine atheism/secularism and to believe in subjectivity and determinism is truly not rational. But who examines their own beliefs?

Atheists do good, because it makes the feel Good. That is because man has evolved as a social creature. Another reason might be 'increasing social standing'


Atheists refraim from doing wrong, because of a number of reasons. One reason, because it makes them feel bad. Another reason might be because of the social consequences

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 10 by Divine Insight]

Atheism (or secularism) is the most likely truth of reality. That's just the most practical rational answer. Period.

You appear to have climbed every mountain and swum every river I posed to you but the more practical rational answer is that the world contains plenty of good and nearly everything has a good utility.

Christians cling to the good.

What justification do atheists have for clinging to the good?

Also given that whenever we discuss atheism/secularism we end up discussing subjectivity and determinism it is really a matter of not examining the alternative that has you arrive at your conclusions. To examine atheism/secularism and to believe in subjectivity and determinism is truly not rational. But who examines their own beliefs?

Atheists do good, because it makes the feel Good. That is because man has evolved as a social creature. Another reason might be 'increasing social standing'


Atheists refraim from doing wrong, because of a number of reasons. One reason, because it makes them feel bad. Another reason might be because of the social consequences

Why oh why is it so hard to believe Atheists like doing good things or that we don't see good in the world or in others?! I will never understand that opinion or where on Earth it comes from.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 15 by suckka]

To be clear I never said that.

Edit: do you think feeling good is a good moral basis?

[OnceConvinced]

Christians cling to the good.

This is a problem for me. The rose-colored glasses. Only ever looking at the beauty of nature and what seems to be great and wonderful design, while avoiding looking at the horrors of nature and what would be considered incompetent or malevolent design. Watch a Christian documentary about intelligent design and it's all flowers, snow flakes, fluffy bunny rabbits and everything lovely and nice, but yet you don't see flesh eating viruses, the violence, the parasites, the suffering, the other aberrations.

If one takes an unbiased view on nature, then one could only come to the conclusion that if there was a god that god not only employs intelligent design, but also malevolent and incompetent design.

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 15 by suckka]

To be clear I never said that.

Edit: do you think feeling good is a good moral basis?

Please feel free to explain what you mean again. I want to understand your position and for you to understand mine. Feeling good is great, but I don't avoid soda and limit my calorie intake because it feels good. It is because I think about my actions and behavior in the context of what is good for me, on the other hand, I sometimes eat donuts (I am using food here, but it applies to other things) and have coffee in the evening because I want to. I know that it's not good for me, but I want a balanced life. A conscious life, a life where I am responsible for my actions and reap the benefits and pitfalls of what I decide to do with it. There are no absolutes and change is expected and welcomed.

I neither cling to good or bad and don't live my life in extremes. I think it is unnatural and detrimental to the mind.

[Bust Nak]

Do you think feeling good is a good moral basis?

Feeling right is a good (as in suitable) moral basis. Feeling good (as in pleasure) is a benefit and motivation for doing the right thing.

To examine atheism/secularism and to believe in subjectivity and determinism is truly not rational.

Having we crossed sword enough for you to acknowledge that we have an answer for each of your objections against subjectivity and determinism?

[BwhoUR]

[Replying to post 19 by Bust Nak]

Bust Nak, can you direct me to one of these conversations? Thank you.