Did the Chruch of Rome select writings for the Bible?

[Zzyzx]

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Did the Chruch of Rome select writings to be included in the Bible?

If so, might that indicate a bias toward writings that were acceptable to / in Rome and/or writings that were in accord with Roman practices and policies?

[historia]

Yes it seems that orthodox belief was established as law at Nicaea.

Making vague statements like this is unhelpful. The Council of Nicaea addressed a handful of theological and ecclesiastical issues. It didn't cover every issue related to orthodox belief. It didn't, for example, address the issue of the canon.

Yet somehow a set of of fifty copies of an officially sanctioned and paid for "Bible" came out of it and were distributed around the Empire.

You seem to be lurching from one inaccuracy to another here. Constantine commissioned the production of fifty bibles in 331 so the growing number of churches in the then-newly founded city of Constantinople could have copies. They were not "distributed around the Empire." And this was four years before the council of Nicaea.

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 11 by historia]

Somebody (some people) made decisions about which writings to include. Right?

WHO (what people / group / organization) made those decisions?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 11 by historia] I'm getting out.

[Zzyzx]

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Repeating

Somebody (some people) made decisions about which writings to include in the Bible.

WHO (what people / group / organization) made those decisions?

Was the Church of Rome NOT involved in those decisions? Was the Roman Emperor NOT involved or influential?

[historia]

Constantine commissioned the production of fifty bibles in 331 so the growing number of churches in the then-newly founded city of Constantinople could have copies. They were not "distributed around the Empire." And this was four years before the council of Nicaea.

Apologies, 331 is, of course, six years after Nicaea.

[historia]

Somebody (some people) made decisions about which writings to include in the Bible.

WHO (what people / group / organization) made those decisions?

The decision as to which texts would be included in the canon was made by individual Christian congregations throughout the Roman Empire. Through a long process of consensus-building, they arrived at a common standard, which is the New Testament.

Was the Church of Rome NOT involved in those decisions?

Sure, but so were all the churches in the Empire.

Was the Roman Emperor NOT involved or influential?

There is no evidence to suppose he was.

[Tetragrammaton]

Wow amazed how lacking the knowledge is about the history of the church or the gospels.

Well the church themselves made their best to make sure no one asks.

were emperors influential?

100% fact, not once, a lot.

So lets start with how many gospels were not included in the canon, around 24+ gospels, only those most influential in Rome made it.
The gospel of Thomas which was very very influential in the east did not make it simply because it was not so much in Rome.

Debunking the idea of christian persecution because they were Christians, that the church invented for political support.
(they might have been persecuted for political decisions the church made like supporting the wrong emperor)

News Flash, the Jesus Christians were probably never persecuted in the roman empire because of their faith.
The Romans called all the messiah followers Christians because Messiah in Greek means Christ and followers of a Christ are Christians.

The church made everybody think that the Militaristic Christians(messianic movement) that declared war to Rome in the 3 roman-jewish wars were the Jesus Christians.(yes those were persecuted to extinction but few remember them)

Nero is not stupid, he accused the extremist Christians that were declaring war to Rome at that particular time as the guilty party of burning Rome, not the peaceful love your enemy Christians else no one would have believed him.

There is hard evidence to suggest that the Christians were rich and influential in Rome to the point where the royal family would give free land as a sign of friendship to the early christian church.

You have a catacomb in Rome with a plaque saying that Flavia Domatilla(niece of the emperor) donated this to the Christians in the early second century.
You have 2 churches in Rome dedicated to 2 Flavians family members in the second century.

You have so many Flavian members declared as saints of the early christian church that saying they were influential is an understatement.

We have so many early text of gospels that would not have survived at all if Christianity was persecuted in the roman empire.
Any persecuted religion in the roman empire left no trace unless it was buried somewhere, in fact we only know about these militaristic Jewish Christians because some of their text were buried.

The Romans cleaned the world of their text, that is how effective and influential the roman empire was with regards to messianic text and propaganda they wanted destroyed.

Btw Flavius Constantine also a Flavian issued The Edict of Milan making it official to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire.

The Edict of Thessalonica was jointly issued by Theodosius I, Gratian, and Valentinian II on 27 February 380 and proclaimed that Nicene Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire.
If that is not influential, I don't know what is.

"WHO (what people / group / organization) made those decisions?"

The most influential people in Rome(the emperor) and the Pope of course.

Ahh btw the Pope has to this day the title Pontifix Maximus which is also the title of the emperor and the title of chief pagan priest of Rome before Christianity came along.

"Somebody (some people) made decisions about which writings to include in the Bible. "

All the writings the roman emperors would allow on the mass media of the day, the roman roads.

Check this out if you are interested in the selection of the gospels in the canon:

Code: Select all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3fywVlTB98

[Willum]

And most importantly, let focus on what Jesus and the Bible said to do here on Earth:

Pay the God Caesar a tax with a coin proclaiming the demi-godhood of Caesar Tiberius via the Divinity of his Father, Augustus.
Don't molest tax-collectors.

Hmmm... I am not seeing any divine motivation in that, except that the God Augustus brought food, protection, sewage, education and many benefits of the Empire to Jerusalem, and wanted payment for them.

And then there is Paul's direction to obey a government:

13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Rome wouldn't write that into it, would they? What's the motivation?

[Replying to post 16 by historia]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... th_century
Sources, proof, when will you all realize Google is just a click away, and wiki, as well.

[historia]

were emperors influential?

The question under consideration is not whether Roman emperors were (generally) influential, but whether they were influential in selecting which texts would be included in the Bible. There is no evidence of the latter, and I'm afraid your rambling post did not provide any.

News Flash, the Jesus Christians were probably never persecuted in the roman empire because of their faith.

Btw Flavius Constantine also a Flavian issued The Edict of Milan making it official to treat Christians benevolently within the Roman Empire.

If Christians were never persecuted for their faith in the Roman Empire, as you contend, then why would Constantine need to issue the Edict of Milan? It explicitly reverses earlier Roman policies toward Christians, saying they should now be allowed to freely practice their faith, should no longer be molested, and any churches or other property forcibly taken from them should be returned.

[historia]

[Replying to post 16 by historia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... th_century
Sources, proof, when will you all realize Google is just a click away, and wiki, as well.

That article and others on Wikipedia, such as the one on the Development of the Christian biblical canon, say exactly what I've said above. Thanks for supporting my point.