Comparing Genesis 1 with John 1

[placebofactor]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

History has a beginning. Therefore, a logical inference can be drawn, ‘If there were nothing in the past, there would be nothing today. Hence, God is before.”

Unlike pagan myths, philosophies, and theories, the Scriptures give a simple, concise account of creation. Scriptures bear the stamp of truth and provide a just and elevated view of God.
The idea of the word “in” means, ‘at the present time.’ Specifically, “in” this hour, minute, and very moment. “in” is limited by the word “beginning.” Therefore, when God spoke His first words, time began.

The Hebrew for ‘beginning’ is re’shiyth, whereas the Greek is “arche,” which speaks of time as the beginning or commencement of time, of all things, from everlasting.
The beginning of the gospel dispensation.

The beginning of a Christian experience.

It sometimes speaks of persons, the first primus, as,

“The first and the last.”

“The beginning and the end.”

The word also speaks of dignity, the first place, power, or dominion. It gives the reader a sense of preeminence, precedence, or princedom. In the abstract refers to rulers, magistrates, princes, persons of influence and authority, or civil rulers. The beginning, or first power, speaks of the princes or chiefs among angels, demons, and the powers of the underworld.

“In” also gives the idea of the commencement or beginning of things as we know them. There have been attempts to take the word beginning to mean the everlasting or eternity past. Not so! The word brings the idea of a starting point to the table.

John wrote, “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ).”

1 John 1, “That which was from the beginning, which we (the apostles) have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (Jesus Christ).”

John 1:4, “In him (Jesus) was life;” Verse 14, and the “Word was made (became) flesh.”

John wrote that the apostles had heard and seen with their own eyes, looked upon, and handled the Lord Jesus, also called, 'the Word of God.'

The man Jesus presented Himself to us in our three higher senses: hearing, sight, and touch. To have handled is the proof of material reality. The Greek verb for “handled” means much more than to touch, to feel after, or to find.

This has been set up with the words, ‘see,’ or ‘seeing,’ used four times in the first three verses. Two different verbs for seeing are used. Horan (to see) and ‘theasthau;’ (to behold intelligently to signify what they were seeing.)

Translated, it would be, “The eternal Son who from eternity has entered time, we the apostles have not only handled as a material being, not only heard, not only seen with the physical eyes but have understood His meaning and significance.”

1 John 1:2-3, John writes, “For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness,”

This phrase is the heart of the verse. The verb ‘manifest’ in Greek indicates the fact of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The apostles could not have heard, seen, or handled the Lord; neither could they have had any knowledge of Christ’s eternal life with the Father unless the Father was willing to reveal this mystery to them in the person of his Son and the commission of the Holy Spirit. The person of Jesus was the mystery revealed.

1 Timothy 3:16, K.J.B. “God manifest in the flesh.” Also, Matthew 1:23 says, “And they shall call the (Jesus) name, Immanuel, God with us.”

[onewithhim]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

I think you go wrong in identifying Jesus first and foremost as the Word. Jesus is not the Word per se but the Word made flesh. Being 'in the flesh' is essential to what Jesus is, and distinguishes Jesus from the Word, which is more spiritual versus material in its essential form. (Words have no real matter to them...)

I think Jesus is better thought of as the light in this analogy, which like Jesus is very clearly the Word (God's very first words in fact) made flesh. Jesus / the light are literally God's firstborn. They are the material result of the union of God's Word with 'fleshy' matter. With him (/the light) all other things that were made were indeed made.

If you want an even deeper analogy here, you should consider 'the deep' reference in Genesis 1:2. This is a very important feminine representative of the material world. She unites with God's Word in Genesis 1 in the creation of all that is made. Jesus is as much of her as he is of God. Indeed, we are made in their image, as man and woman.

The deep is essentially Mary in the NT version of events, i.e.:

God : the deep : the light (Genesis 1) = God : Mary : Jesus (NT)

One question: Who do you think spoke the words in Genesis 1, "Let there be? Was it the Father or the Son who is the Logos.

At this point in the narrative, I would suggest that 'God' is just spirit. Words / Logos are spiritual in their essential form, and they speak for themselves. i.e., per Genesis 1, God is literally just spirit or wind hovering over the deep. There is no speaker here other than this spirit.

So I would say it is not the Father or the Son who is speaking since neither of these technically yet exist (Fatherhood requires Sonship, and the Son has yet to be made). It is rather something more like the Holy Spirit, to use that term. A seed that holds the potential for Sonship, Fatherhood, and all other life.

A seed that, again, requires a material womb (/Mother) in which to grow and be born. Mary / the deep.

You do not believe that Jesus existed in heaven before he came down to the earth through Mary's womb? He definitely existed even before the creation of all other things. (Read John 17:3; John 3:13; Colossians 1:15,16.)

Seeing as how Jesus was involved in the creation of all things, it stands to reason that he is the one discussing with God the creation of the heavens and the earth, and man. The Spirit is God's Holy Spirit by which He accomplishes whatever He wants to accomplish. It extends from Him. It is not a Person, any more than the current in a light bulb is a person.

I think any material being who does the will of God (or who is the Word made flesh) is Christ. To use your electricity analogy, the specific being who fulfills this role, be it the man Jesus or a beam of life-giving light, it doesn't matter to me. They are interchangeable. The Christ role cuts across the specific beings that fulfill it. (Think Paul's notion of the body of Christ here, where each part plays their own function, but is no less Christ than any other part. Jesus the man has no special privilege here.)

So no, I don't think the man Jesus was there at the beginning. I don't think Christ more broadly was either for that matter, at least not at the beginning of the beginning. Christ does not show up until Genesis 1:3, when the light comes into being. Before this there is only the spirit of God / the Word, which speaks for itself, and the deep.

Put otherwise, the light was there for the making of all other things that were made but the light. The light is not itself the seminal Word nor the original source of it. It is the Word made flesh, and only becomes a source of the Word once created.

Again, per the Colossians verses you point out, the Son / Christ is God's firstborn, meaning they must first be born, and do not pre-exist or take part in the events preceding their births. Not even Christ, which traces back to Genesis 1:3 and transcends any man, gets around this.

Jesus was born, or, brought into existence, long before he came to the earth. He was a perfect man here on Earth, but not a common, regular man. He was God's Son, sent by God from heaven. "Jehovah's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, to preach Jehovah's acceptable year." (Luke 4:18, 19; see what he was quoting from at Isaiah 61:1,2)

He said, "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him who sent me." (John 6:38)

[placebofactor]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

I think you go wrong in identifying Jesus first and foremost as the Word. Jesus is not the Word per se but the Word made flesh. Being 'in the flesh' is essential to what Jesus is, and distinguishes Jesus from the Word, which is more spiritual versus material in its essential form. (Words have no real matter to them...)

I think Jesus is better thought of as the light in this analogy, which like Jesus is very clearly the Word (God's very first words in fact) made flesh. Jesus / the light are literally God's firstborn. They are the material result of the union of God's Word with 'fleshy' matter. With him (/the light) all other things that were made were indeed made.

If you want an even deeper analogy here, you should consider 'the deep' reference in Genesis 1:2. This is a very important feminine representative of the material world. She unites with God's Word in Genesis 1 in the creation of all that is made. Jesus is as much of her as he is of God. Indeed, we are made in their image, as man and woman.

The deep is essentially Mary in the NT version of events, i.e.:

God : the deep : the light (Genesis 1) = God : Mary : Jesus (NT)

One question: Who do you think spoke the words in Genesis 1, "Let there be? Was it the Father or the Son who is the Logos.

At this point in the narrative, I would suggest that 'God' is just spirit. Words / Logos are spiritual in their essential form, and they speak for themselves. i.e., per Genesis 1, God is literally just spirit or wind hovering over the deep. There is no speaker here other than this spirit.

So I would say it is not the Father or the Son who is speaking since neither of these technically yet exist (Fatherhood requires Sonship, and the Son has yet to be made). It is rather something more like the Holy Spirit, to use that term. A seed that holds the potential for Sonship, Fatherhood, and all other life.

A seed that, again, requires a material womb (/Mother) in which to grow and be born. Mary / the deep.

You do not believe that Jesus existed in heaven before he came down to the earth through Mary's womb? He definitely existed even before the creation of all other things. (Read John 17:3; John 3:13; Colossians 1:15,16.)

Seeing as how Jesus was involved in the creation of all things, it stands to reason that he is the one discussing with God the creation of the heavens and the earth, and man. The Spirit is God's Holy Spirit by which He accomplishes whatever He wants to accomplish. It extends from Him. It is not a Person, any more than the current in a light bulb is a person.

I think any material being who does the will of God (or who is the Word made flesh) is Christ. To use your electricity analogy, the specific being who fulfills this role, be it the man Jesus or a beam of life-giving light, it doesn't matter to me. They are interchangeable. The Christ role cuts across the specific beings that fulfill it. (Think Paul's notion of the body of Christ here, where each part plays their own function, but is no less Christ than any other part. Jesus the man has no special privilege here.)

So no, I don't think the man Jesus was there at the beginning. I don't think Christ more broadly was either for that matter, at least not at the beginning of the beginning. Christ does not show up until Genesis 1:3, when the light comes into being. Before this there is only the spirit of God / the Word, which speaks for itself, and the deep.

Put otherwise, the light was there for the making of all other things that were made but the light. The light is not itself the seminal Word nor the original source of it. It is the Word made flesh, and only becomes a source of the Word once created.

Again, per the Colossians verses you point out, the Son / Christ is God's firstborn, meaning they must first be born, and do not pre-exist or take part in the events preceding their births. Not even Christ, which traces back to Genesis 1:3 and transcends any man, gets around this.

Jesus was born, or, brought into existence, long before he came to the earth. He was a perfect man here on Earth, but not a common, regular man. He was God's Son, sent by God from heaven. "Jehovah's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, to preach Jehovah's acceptable year." (Luke 4:18, 19; see what he was quoting from at Isaiah 61:1,2)

He said, "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him who sent me." (John 6:38)

In Isaiah 48 we have a complete picture of the Godhead. Jehovah is speaking to the Jews. Isaiah's emphasis here is upon Israel as Yahweh's witness.
Verse 11 he said to the Jews of Israel, "Hearken unto me, -- I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." No doubt this is Jehovah speaking. He goes on to say in,

Verse 16, "Come you (the Jews) near unto me, hear you this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; (from before the creation) from the time that it was, there am I: AND NOW THE LORD GOD (THE FATHER), AND HIS SPIRIT (the Holy Spirt) HAS SENT ME."

"From the beginning." This is written in a language we can all understand. Verse 17, "Thus said the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God which teaches you (Israel) to profit," Compare with Galatians 4:4-5, "When the fulness of the time has come, God (the Father) sent forth his Son, ----- to redeem them (the Jews) that were under the law, that we (Jews and Gentiles) might receive the adoptions of sons." Christians are the bride of Christ and sons of the Father.
Your thoughts:

[placebofactor]

Psalms 23
David was both, a King and prophet of Israel. Jesus Christ is the King, High Priest, and prophet to Jews and Gentiles. No other man has ever carried all three titles of King, Priest and Prophet. Three thousand years ago, King David wrote the following:

Psalms 23:1, “The LORD (Jehovah) is my shepherd; I shall not want.”

John 10:11, Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” So, here is further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament, the shepherd of King David, and the shepherd of the Christian flock.

John 10:14, Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am know of mine.” Verse 15, “I lay down my life for the sheep.”

John 15:13, Jesus said, Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

1 John 3:16, “Hereby perceive we the love of God (theos), because he (Jesus) laid down his life for us:”

1 Peter 5:4, “And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, you shall receive a crown of glory that fades not away.”

Matthew 24:30, “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

1 Thessalonians 4:16, “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout”

Isaiah 40:10-12, “Behold the Lord God (Jehovah) will come with strong hand, --- His reward is with him, and his work (wage) before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd:”
And what is that reward?

In Revelation 2:10, Jesus said, “Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give you a crown of life.”

[onewithhim]

Psalms 23
David was both, a King and prophet of Israel. Jesus Christ is the King, High Priest, and prophet to Jews and Gentiles. No other man has ever carried all three titles of King, Priest and Prophet. Three thousand years ago, King David wrote the following:

Psalms 23:1, “The LORD (Jehovah) is my shepherd; I shall not want.”

John 10:11, Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” So, here is further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament, the shepherd of King David, and the shepherd of the Christian flock.

That is not further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah is the Shepherd of His people, yes, and Jesus represents Him in all things, so Jesus can be said to be the shepherd also, standing in for his Father who anointed him to be the shepherd to the people. (Isaiah 61:1,2) It was an assignment that Jehovah gave to Jesus. Jesus reflects Jehovah and what His will is.

[placebofactor]

Psalms 23
David was both, a King and prophet of Israel. Jesus Christ is the King, High Priest, and prophet to Jews and Gentiles. No other man has ever carried all three titles of King, Priest and Prophet. Three thousand years ago, King David wrote the following:

Psalms 23:1, “The LORD (Jehovah) is my shepherd; I shall not want.”

John 10:11, Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” So, here is further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament, the shepherd of King David, and the shepherd of the Christian flock.

That is not further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah is the Shepherd of His people, yes, and Jesus represents Him in all things,

So is Jehovah the shepherd of Jesus and the Jews but not the Gentiles. If so, we have two shepherds.


so Jesus can be said to be the shepherd also, standing in for his Father who anointed him to be the shepherd to the people. (Isaiah 61:1,2) It was an assignment that Jehovah gave to Jesus. Jesus reflects Jehovah and what His will is.

You mean like a mirror? Throughout the N.T. Jesus said he is the Light, not the mirror or reflection of light.

This is my last word on the subject, read it carefully. Hebrews is a letter to the Jews who worshipped the Father but dishonored the Son. Hebrews 1:8, The Father is speaking. "Unto the Son (Jesus) he (the Father said), Your throne, O God, is forever and ever:" Wow, the Father called his beloved Son "God.!"

If you don't understand that and the following, you will never understand!

Concerning Jesus Christ: His name shall be called Emmanuel, God with us.

He is, "God was manifest (came to us) in the flesh.

He is, "The Word was with God (the Father) the Word was God."

Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, --- the Almighty."

[onewithhim]

Psalms 23
David was both, a King and prophet of Israel. Jesus Christ is the King, High Priest, and prophet to Jews and Gentiles. No other man has ever carried all three titles of King, Priest and Prophet. Three thousand years ago, King David wrote the following:

Psalms 23:1, “The LORD (Jehovah) is my shepherd; I shall not want.”

John 10:11, Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.” So, here is further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah of the Old Testament, the shepherd of King David, and the shepherd of the Christian flock.

That is not further evidence that Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah is the Shepherd of His people, yes, and Jesus represents Him in all things,

So is Jehovah the shepherd of Jesus and the Jews but not the Gentiles. If so, we have two shepherds.


so Jesus can be said to be the shepherd also, standing in for his Father who anointed him to be the shepherd to the people. (Isaiah 61:1,2) It was an assignment that Jehovah gave to Jesus. Jesus reflects Jehovah and what His will is.

You mean like a mirror? Throughout the N.T. Jesus said he is the Light, not the mirror or reflection of light.

This is my last word on the subject, read it carefully. Hebrews is a letter to the Jews who worshipped the Father but dishonored the Son. Hebrews 1:8, The Father is speaking. "Unto the Son (Jesus) he (the Father said), Your throne, O God, is forever and ever:" Wow, the Father called his beloved Son "God.!"

If you don't understand that and the following, you will never understand!

Concerning Jesus Christ: His name shall be called Emmanuel, God with us.

He is, "God was manifest (came to us) in the flesh.

He is, "The Word was with God (the Father) the Word was God."

Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, --- the Almighty."

Jesus is the reflection of God---the IMAGE of God, as Paul says. The image is not the thing that it is the reflection of. (Colossians 1:15)

The Father never called His Son God. Heb.1:8 is the quotation by Paul of the original Hebrew language of Psalm 45:6 which says, according to the Jewish translators: "Your divine throne is everlasting." Nothing about being God. Paul would certainly quote that verse as the original rendering suggested. What is to understand further about that verse? It's pretty clear that the KJ translators were overstepping their authority. And in verse 9 the verse says that Jesus had a God---"and God--your God has anointed you with the oil of exultation..."

Christ was referred to as "God With Us," yes. He was God's means of being "with" people on the earth. He was God's representative. I think he made that pretty clear.

"The Word was WITH God." How can someone be with himself? The last part of that verse must mean something else, as many versions attest. (See, for example, The Emphatic Diaglott by Wilson.) The words in the original Greek show that the two words for "god" there are different and the second "god" has no article in front of it, meaning that it isn't THE Almighty God.

Jesus didn't claim to be Almighty, and in the Hebrew Scriptures he is never referred to as "El Shaddai" which means God Almighty. He is referred to as "El Gibbohr," simply mighty god. Only Jehovah is El Shaddai. The Father and the Son are distinguished between.

These things I believe, and I thought we could have a discussion about them. I am willing to consider what you have to say and I thoughtfully answer. If you have any rebuttal, why don't you address my thoughts as to why they are wrong? (Not just declare that they are wrong. Tell me specifically why what I have deduced is wrong. These are my own thoughts and no one has told me what to think.)

[placebofactor]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

History has a beginning. Therefore, a logical inference can be drawn, ‘If there were nothing in the past, there would be nothing today. Hence, God is before.”

Unlike pagan myths, philosophies, and theories, the Scriptures give a simple, concise account of creation. Scriptures bear the stamp of truth and provide a just and elevated view of God.
The idea of the word “in” means, ‘at the present time.’ Specifically, “in” this hour, minute, and very moment. “in” is limited by the word “beginning.” Therefore, when God spoke His first words, time began.

The Hebrew for ‘beginning’ is re’shiyth, whereas the Greek is “arche,” which speaks of time as the beginning or commencement of time, of all things, from everlasting.
The beginning of the gospel dispensation.

The beginning of a Christian experience.

It sometimes speaks of persons, the first primus, as,

“The first and the last.”

“The beginning and the end.”

The word also speaks of dignity, the first place, power, or dominion. It gives the reader a sense of preeminence, precedence, or princedom. In the abstract refers to rulers, magistrates, princes, persons of influence and authority, or civil rulers. The beginning, or first power, speaks of the princes or chiefs among angels, demons, and the powers of the underworld.

“In” also gives the idea of the commencement or beginning of things as we know them. There have been attempts to take the word beginning to mean the everlasting or eternity past. Not so! The word brings the idea of a starting point to the table.

John wrote, “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ).”

1 John 1, “That which was from the beginning, which we (the apostles) have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (Jesus Christ).”

John 1:4, “In him (Jesus) was life;” Verse 14, and the “Word was made (became) flesh.”

John wrote that the apostles had heard and seen with their own eyes, looked upon, and handled the Lord Jesus, also called, 'the Word of God.'

The man Jesus presented Himself to us in our three higher senses: hearing, sight, and touch. To have handled is the proof of material reality. The Greek verb for “handled” means much more than to touch, to feel after, or to find.

This has been set up with the words, ‘see,’ or ‘seeing,’ used four times in the first three verses. Two different verbs for seeing are used. Horan (to see) and ‘theasthau;’ (to behold intelligently to signify what they were seeing.)

Translated, it would be, “The eternal Son who from eternity has entered time, we the apostles have not only handled as a material being, not only heard, not only seen with the physical eyes but have understood His meaning and significance.”

1 John 1:2-3, John writes, “For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness,”

This phrase is the heart of the verse. The verb ‘manifest’ in Greek indicates the fact of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The apostles could not have heard, seen, or handled the Lord; neither could they have had any knowledge of Christ’s eternal life with the Father unless the Father was willing to reveal this mystery to them in the person of his Son and the commission of the Holy Spirit. The person of Jesus was the mystery revealed.

1 Timothy 3:16, K.J.B. “God manifest in the flesh.” Also, Matthew 1:23 says, “And they shall call the (Jesus) name, Immanuel, God with us.”

In other versions, I Timothy 3:16 correctly says---not "God"---but He was manifest in the flesh. Check out other versions. "He" would be Jesus Christ, not God.

"Immanuel" does mean "God with us." It does not mean that Jesus is God but that he represented God here on Earth. That is how God is with us.

If I made the simple statement, "Onewithhim is with Phil," how would you interpret that statement? Or the President is with Onewithhim. You make things so complicated. The scriptures are written to the common people. Back in the times of Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus and through the "Dark Ages," most people were uneducated, understanding the scriptures in layman's terms, not the language and vocabulary of Shakespeare or the Einsteins of the world.

[onewithhim]

Let’s compare Genesis 1 with John 1:

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning... John 1:1, "In the beginning..."

In the beginning what? Genesis 1, God (Elohim!)”

John 1:1 "Was the Word (Jesus) And the Word was with God (the Holy Spirit)." If ‘Word’ (speaking of Jesus) is written in upper case, then God (theos) has to also be in upper case.

So, the beginning begins with the ‘Word’ = (Jesus) and the (Holy Spirit) who is moving “Upon the surface of the waters,” with, Job 26:13, “By his (God’s) Spirit he has garnished (adorned) the heavens;”

John 1:1, "And the Word was God." Who’s the Word? John 1:14, “And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.”

John 1: "The same (the Word) was in the beginning with God (the Holy Spirit)."

Genesis 1:1, ”In the beginning God,” the Hebrew here for God is Elohim referring to the Father, who sends his Son, and the Holy Spirit to create the heaven and earth.

John 1:3, "All things were made by Him (Jesus): and without Him was not anything made that was made."

John 1:4, "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 1:5, "And the light (God’s glory) shineth in darkness."

Genesis 1:2, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God, declared, “Let there be light." Only light exposes the darkness and brings life to the world.

History has a beginning. Therefore, a logical inference can be drawn, ‘If there were nothing in the past, there would be nothing today. Hence, God is before.”

Unlike pagan myths, philosophies, and theories, the Scriptures give a simple, concise account of creation. Scriptures bear the stamp of truth and provide a just and elevated view of God.
The idea of the word “in” means, ‘at the present time.’ Specifically, “in” this hour, minute, and very moment. “in” is limited by the word “beginning.” Therefore, when God spoke His first words, time began.

The Hebrew for ‘beginning’ is re’shiyth, whereas the Greek is “arche,” which speaks of time as the beginning or commencement of time, of all things, from everlasting.
The beginning of the gospel dispensation.

The beginning of a Christian experience.

It sometimes speaks of persons, the first primus, as,

“The first and the last.”

“The beginning and the end.”

The word also speaks of dignity, the first place, power, or dominion. It gives the reader a sense of preeminence, precedence, or princedom. In the abstract refers to rulers, magistrates, princes, persons of influence and authority, or civil rulers. The beginning, or first power, speaks of the princes or chiefs among angels, demons, and the powers of the underworld.

“In” also gives the idea of the commencement or beginning of things as we know them. There have been attempts to take the word beginning to mean the everlasting or eternity past. Not so! The word brings the idea of a starting point to the table.

John wrote, “In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ).”

1 John 1, “That which was from the beginning, which we (the apostles) have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life (Jesus Christ).”

John 1:4, “In him (Jesus) was life;” Verse 14, and the “Word was made (became) flesh.”

John wrote that the apostles had heard and seen with their own eyes, looked upon, and handled the Lord Jesus, also called, 'the Word of God.'

The man Jesus presented Himself to us in our three higher senses: hearing, sight, and touch. To have handled is the proof of material reality. The Greek verb for “handled” means much more than to touch, to feel after, or to find.

This has been set up with the words, ‘see,’ or ‘seeing,’ used four times in the first three verses. Two different verbs for seeing are used. Horan (to see) and ‘theasthau;’ (to behold intelligently to signify what they were seeing.)

Translated, it would be, “The eternal Son who from eternity has entered time, we the apostles have not only handled as a material being, not only heard, not only seen with the physical eyes but have understood His meaning and significance.”

1 John 1:2-3, John writes, “For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness,”

This phrase is the heart of the verse. The verb ‘manifest’ in Greek indicates the fact of the incarnation of Jesus Christ. The apostles could not have heard, seen, or handled the Lord; neither could they have had any knowledge of Christ’s eternal life with the Father unless the Father was willing to reveal this mystery to them in the person of his Son and the commission of the Holy Spirit. The person of Jesus was the mystery revealed.

1 Timothy 3:16, K.J.B. “God manifest in the flesh.” Also, Matthew 1:23 says, “And they shall call the (Jesus) name, Immanuel, God with us.”

In other versions, I Timothy 3:16 correctly says---not "God"---but He was manifest in the flesh. Check out other versions. "He" would be Jesus Christ, not God.

"Immanuel" does mean "God with us." It does not mean that Jesus is God but that he represented God here on Earth. That is how God is with us.

If I made the simple statement, "Onewithhim is with Phil," how would you interpret that statement? Or the President is with Onewithhim. You make things so complicated. The scriptures are written to the common people. Back in the times of Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus and through the "Dark Ages," most people were uneducated, understanding the scriptures in layman's terms, not the language and vocabulary of Shakespeare or the Einsteins of the world.

That could mean that I support Phil even though I am not literally at his side. (It is not complicated.)

[manmade]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #16]
I agree with everything you said. I think the trinity doctrine is an outright abomination. There are sinister reasons why Trinitarians won't come clean on this issue. Most of them KNOW trinity is bogus false doctrine.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #16]
I agree with everything you said. I think the trinity doctrine is an outright abomination.

Wow, you just condemned millions and millions of Christians who have gone before us. When you use the word "abomination" you're talking about people who hate the Jews, hate Christians, and hate God.


There are sinister reasons why Trinitarians won't come clean on this issue.

What for example is a "sinister reason?"

Most of them KNOW trinity is bogus false doctrine.

No, most of the cults think its false. Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, etc. Not very good company, is it?

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Here's your problem, you're using a corrupt Bible. One that is based on the 3 % corrupted manuscripts.