John 17:3

[placebofactor]

Four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, Malachi, the last prophet of the Old Testament wrote concerning the Jews, “You have profaned (my name) in that you say, the table of the LORD is polluted;” “I even I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because you do not lay it to heart.”

“You have departed out of the way, you have caused many to stumble at the law, you have corrupted the covenant of Levi,”

“But unto you who fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall.” This was the condition of the Jews when Jesus came to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Judas had already betrayed Jesus, and Jesus also knew beforehand that his disciples would forsake him. In John 17:3, Jesus prayed these words to his Father, “And this is life eternal, that they (his disciples) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

Eternal life is the great end that is set before us. Eternal life lies only in the knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. The Son of God was to die for us so that we could be brought before the throne of his Father.
Jesus did not pray nonchalantly to his Father, but with great love. And this is how we are to begin our prayer: “Our Father!”

John 17:1-3, The time had come for the Father to glorify his Son, to return to him the glory he had set aside to become a child born and a Son given. What was it Jesus was to be given? It is “Power over all flesh,”

Matthew 11:27, “All things are delivered unto me of my Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”

In Matthew 28:18, Jesus said, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Jesus could now give eternal life to as many as the Father gave him.

When Jesus said, in verse 3, “And this is life eternal, that they (the Jews) might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
When he spoke these words, “The only true God,” Jesus was contrasting his Father with,

1. Polytheism: The belief there is more than one God.
2. Philosophic naturalism is the idea that only natural laws and forces, as opposed to supernatural ones, operate in the universe.
3. Mystic pantheism, the doctrine that the universe conceived of as a whole is God and, conversely, that there is no God but the combined substance, forces, and laws that are manifested in the existing universe.

When Jesus said, “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent,” this is the only place where he gives himself this compound name, using the term “Jesus Christ” in the strictest of senses.

“Jesus,” because he saves his people from their sins; and “Christ” as anointed with the fulness of the Holy Ghost for the exercise of his saving offices, Matthew 1:16, “Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.”

“Who you have sent.” Sent in the abundance of Divine Authority and Power to save. With his words, the Lord positioned himself side by side with his Father, proving by implication his Divine nature. If Jesus were a mere creature, as many claim, eternal life with him would be impossible.

[onewithhim]

In your comments, you leave many unanswered questions.

What do you mean "Jesus was not just a 'mere creature?" What do you mean by creature? Never heard of an (un-mere) creature. If he's not a creature, he must be the God of Genesis 1:1 who created all creatures.

What do you mean when you say he is the firstborn of the Father? Are you saying he was created first, before anyone or anything? My Bible says Jesus created all things.

When was Jesus sent to the earth? Scriptures state that he created all things, including the earth.

What do you mean by a perfect man? What is a perfect man? Adam was not perfect; he was capable of sinning, and he did. Jesus could not sin. If you say he could have sinned, show us the verse. My understanding is that only God cannot sin.

Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.

I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.

And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

[placebofactor]

Adam WAS perfect. God doesn't create things that are imperfect, that have defects. "He is the Rock, his work is perfect" (Deut. 32:4, KJV) All created beings have free will and could always sin if they so chose. Jesus had the choice, to either remain faithful or disobey, just like Adam did. He could have disobeyed but CHOSE not to. That is why he was exalted by God after his death and resurrection. (Phil. 2:8,9) It would have been nothing special for him to become a ransom if he couldn't have disobeyed. Give Jesus some credit. He wanted so much not to be in a position to be called a blasphemer, and he wished he didn't have to do it, but he agonizingly stuck to his purpose. It wasn't easy. It would have been easy if he could not disobey.

I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.

And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

[APAK]

I have provided the Witnesses with 100 verses across several of my topics that prove Jesus Christ is God, to the glory of his Father in heaven. Jesus' Father calls him God, yet they deny it. How can anyone deny that Jesus is God when his own Father declared him to be God? To reject the words of the Father is blasphemous. Thomas, Paul, Luke, and Matthew all refer to Jesus as God; Isaiah also calls Jesus God. Solomon and John tell us that, as the Word of God, Jesus spoke everything into existence. Revelation states that Jesus claims to be the "Almighty."

Adam was not perfect; God stated that everything he created was "good." Good does not mean perfect. Good implies being agreeable, beautiful, fair, etc. Jesus was incapable of sinning; he is the Creator. Your own Bible asserts that Jesus created all things. The writers of the N.W.T. added " (other) " things in brackets, but "other" is not found in any manuscripts.

Jesus was prophesied as a Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth was laid, a Lamb without spot or blemish; he was the perfect sacrifice. Isaiah tells us that the government would rest on his shoulders, that Jesus is the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, and that there would be no end to his government.

If he were capable of sinning, how could he have saved his people from their sins? He was God with us, God manifest in the flesh; his title of Savior indicates he was incapable of sinning. Jesus was not the twilight of the world; he was the Light and the Life of the world.

And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

[placebofactor]

And more so because he chose not to sin. If he was incapable of sinning, there would be no victory for him in his ransom sacrifice. Why did he sweat blood when praying to his Father and his God? (Luke 22:44) Because he knew he had to stay on the course mapped out by his Father; if he failed the ransom would be null and void. He had the choice. He didn't want to be branded as a blasphemer, and asked his Father to let him not do this if possible, but then he said that his Father's will would be done. To be branded a blasphemer was why he had bloody sweat coming out of his face. It was anathema to him to be thought of as a blasphemer. If he couldn't choose, he wouldn't have worried about being killed as a blasphemer. Everything would have been set in stone and it would all have been rote.

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

It's difficult to explain things to you because you have made Jesus Christ less than your God. There are three phases to Jesus existence.

Phase 1. From before the beginning of the creation until his birth as a child, he is God (Elohim), the Creator in Genesis 1.

Phase 2. From the moment of his birth in October of 4 B.C., he made himself lower than the angels and became a man, leaving all his power and glory behind. As a man, everything had to be put into the Father's hands. A spirit cannot shed blood, so he had to become a man born of a virgin, conceived without a human father. As a man, he could shed his precious blood, his being the only blood that could atone for our sins. Because he was without a human father, he did not inherit Adam's sin, nor was he under the curse placed on Adam. So, the sacrifice of his human life was necessary for sinners to have a way to the Father's throne in heaven.

Phase 3. After his resurrection, Jesus returned to the glory he had before he became a man. Three distinct phases.

As a man he felt the pain of the lash of the whip, and the pain and suffering of being nailed to a cross. And because Jesus is the author of our faith, he was aware of his coming suffering and death because he wrote the book. Yet he prayed as a man to his Father, if there was any other way, let it be; if not, he was willing to take our cup of suffering and our punishment upon himself, and suffer our physical death so we could live.

[APAK]

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

It's difficult to explain things to you because you have made Jesus Christ less than your God. There are three phases to Jesus existence.

Phase 1. From before the beginning of the creation until his birth as a child, he is God (Elohim), the Creator in Genesis 1.

Phase 2. From the moment of his birth in October of 4 B.C., he made himself lower than the angels and became a man, leaving all his power and glory behind. As a man, everything had to be put into the Father's hands. A spirit cannot shed blood, so he had to become a man born of a virgin, conceived without a human father. As a man, he could shed his precious blood, his being the only blood that could atone for our sins. Because he was without a human father, he did not inherit Adam's sin, nor was he under the curse placed on Adam. So, the sacrifice of his human life was necessary for sinners to have a way to the Father's throne in heaven.

Phase 3. After his resurrection, Jesus returned to the glory he had before he became a man. Three distinct phases.

As a man he felt the pain of the lash of the whip, and the pain and suffering of being nailed to a cross. And because Jesus is the author of our faith, he was aware of his coming suffering and death because he wrote the book. Yet he prayed as a man to his Father, if there was any other way, let it be; if not, he was willing to take our cup of suffering and our punishment upon himself, and suffer our physical death so we could live.

Your explanation of your three phases is alien to the scriptures and to Christ. So your source(s) must also be made-up. You serve a different Christ. There is only one YHWH, one LORD and Jesus isn't it, it is his Father.

[placebofactor]

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

It's difficult to explain things to you because you have made Jesus Christ less than your God. There are three phases to Jesus existence.

Phase 1. From before the beginning of the creation until his birth as a child, he is God (Elohim), the Creator in Genesis 1.

Phase 2. From the moment of his birth in October of 4 B.C., he made himself lower than the angels and became a man, leaving all his power and glory behind. As a man, everything had to be put into the Father's hands. A spirit cannot shed blood, so he had to become a man born of a virgin, conceived without a human father. As a man, he could shed his precious blood, his being the only blood that could atone for our sins. Because he was without a human father, he did not inherit Adam's sin, nor was he under the curse placed on Adam. So, the sacrifice of his human life was necessary for sinners to have a way to the Father's throne in heaven.

Phase 3. After his resurrection, Jesus returned to the glory he had before he became a man. Three distinct phases.

As a man he felt the pain of the lash of the whip, and the pain and suffering of being nailed to a cross. And because Jesus is the author of our faith, he was aware of his coming suffering and death because he wrote the book. Yet he prayed as a man to his Father, if there was any other way, let it be; if not, he was willing to take our cup of suffering and our punishment upon himself, and suffer our physical death so we could live.

Your explanation of your three phases is alien to the scriptures and to Christ. So your source(s) must also be made-up. You serve a different Christ. There is only one YHWH, one LORD and Jesus isn't it, it is his Father.

No, it's alien only to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Atheists, the Mormons, and the Muslims, not to Christians. We can stop now because I see you have planted your feet, stiffened your legs, closed your mind, and refuse to discuss this most important subject honestly.

[APAK]

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

It's difficult to explain things to you because you have made Jesus Christ less than your God. There are three phases to Jesus existence.

Phase 1. From before the beginning of the creation until his birth as a child, he is God (Elohim), the Creator in Genesis 1.

Phase 2. From the moment of his birth in October of 4 B.C., he made himself lower than the angels and became a man, leaving all his power and glory behind. As a man, everything had to be put into the Father's hands. A spirit cannot shed blood, so he had to become a man born of a virgin, conceived without a human father. As a man, he could shed his precious blood, his being the only blood that could atone for our sins. Because he was without a human father, he did not inherit Adam's sin, nor was he under the curse placed on Adam. So, the sacrifice of his human life was necessary for sinners to have a way to the Father's throne in heaven.

Phase 3. After his resurrection, Jesus returned to the glory he had before he became a man. Three distinct phases.

As a man he felt the pain of the lash of the whip, and the pain and suffering of being nailed to a cross. And because Jesus is the author of our faith, he was aware of his coming suffering and death because he wrote the book. Yet he prayed as a man to his Father, if there was any other way, let it be; if not, he was willing to take our cup of suffering and our punishment upon himself, and suffer our physical death so we could live.

Your explanation of your three phases is alien to the scriptures and to Christ. So your source(s) must also be made-up. You serve a different Christ. There is only one YHWH, one LORD and Jesus isn't it, it is his Father.

No, it's alien only to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Atheists, the Mormons, and the Muslims, not to Christians. We can stop now because I see you have planted your feet, stiffened your legs, closed your mind, and refuse to discuss this most important subject honestly.

And I see you are full of yourself. There's no honesty in passing fraud off as the truth.

[onewithhim]

Let me begin with this Jehovah's Witness term, "Ransome Sacrifice." Can't find that in my Bible. Excuse me, but Jesus is the author and the finisher of our faith. He could not have failed; men fail, but Jesus did not. Read the following carefully, then apologize to us Christians.

John 10:15-18, These are Jesus' words. "I lay down my life for the sheep. Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it up. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself, I have POWER to lay it down, and I have POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN."

In verse 25, Jesus is speaking to the doubters of yesterday and today when he said, "I told you, and you believed not the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. but you believe not, because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY HAND."

Jesus was the shepherd who came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Because Witnesses believe Jesus is nothing but a man, I understand why you think as you think. And because Witnesses deny the person of the Holy Spirit, they will never understand the things of God. Followers of a false shepherd called the Watchtower, whose history was founded on a false prophet, Taze Russel.

If Jesus Christ is not the God of the O.T. and the new, millions of Christians have died for nothing, even men like Peter, Paul, and the rest of them. Do you honestly think they would have died if they thought Jesus was nothing but a man? If you do, you must think they were stupid.

The blind leading the blind, followers having closed minds, following shadows of truth.

Why do you keep saying that JWs think that Jesus was "just a man?" I told you in detail why that statement is not true. You insist on keeping JWs in a bad light, even if you have to tell falsehoods.

Jesus could have failed, but he chose not to. That is why he is lauded for all that he did right up to his death on the 'cross.' (KJV) As I said, if he didn't have to choose, nothing he did would garner much appreciation. There would have been no surprises, no eagerly anticipating what he would do, not even grief over his death. Peter wouldn't even have taken off the ear of the servant of the high priest. He would have known that it was all foreordained so why bother? Everybody could have stayed at home and just waited for Jesus to sacrifice himself. The whole story would have been different if it was all foreordained. No, Jesus the Christ and the Son of God chose to obey his Father. He gained more status because he did obey to the death. (Phil.2:8,9) If he was God, he wouldn't have had to gain anything...he would already be the Most High. But God gave him high honors and elevated him even more than before.

I have one question, you wrote, "Jesus could have failed." Where in the Bible does it say, "Jesus could have failed:"

Here's a point in time where Jesus was weak in spirit, and at least thought of and for a moment considered giving up, although he chose not to in the end.

(Mat 26:39) And he went forward a little and fell on his face and prayed, saying: My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me. Nevertheless, not as I will but as You will.

It's difficult to explain things to you because you have made Jesus Christ less than your God.

Jesus himself made himself less than God. He said "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) And that wasn't just when he was on Earth. When he went back to heaven the Father was still higher than he was.

Jesus said: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

The writer to the Hebrews said: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8, KJV)

He didn't lose his Almighty Godship when coming to Earth because he didn't have equality with God to begin with. He was the same before he came here, and the same when he was here, and the same forever. No cessation of powers because he was on the earth. He demonstrated his entire arsenal of power here, getting his power and strength from his God.

[Capbook]

Jesus himself made himself less than God. He said "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) And that wasn't just when he was on Earth. When he went back to heaven the Father was still higher than he was.

Yes, that is relational subordination. The Father is greater, higher in rank or position that Jesus but that does not demean their equality being in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)

Jesus said: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

The Father also called Jesus God. (Psa 45:6-7, Heb 1:8-9)

The writer to the Hebrews said: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8, KJV)

Yes, where would you believe Jesus was before being born?

He didn't lose his Almighty Godship when coming to Earth because he didn't have equality with God to begin with. He was the same before he came here, and the same when he was here, and the same forever. No cessation of powers because he was on the earth. He demonstrated his entire arsenal of power here, getting his power and strength from his God.

Why Jesus had that same glory with the Father before the world existed?(John 17:5)

[onewithhim]

Jesus himself made himself less than God. He said "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) And that wasn't just when he was on Earth. When he went back to heaven the Father was still higher than he was.

Yes, that is relational subordination. The Father is greater, higher in rank or position that Jesus but that does not demean their equality being in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)

Jesus said: "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

The Father also called Jesus God. (Psa 45:6-7, Heb 1:8-9)

The writer to the Hebrews said: "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8, KJV)

Yes, where would you believe Jesus was before being born?

He didn't lose his Almighty Godship when coming to Earth because he didn't have equality with God to begin with. He was the same before he came here, and the same when he was here, and the same forever. No cessation of powers because he was on the earth. He demonstrated his entire arsenal of power here, getting his power and strength from his God.

Why Jesus had that same glory with the Father before the world existed?(John 17:5)

No, the Father did not call Jesus "God." Jesus didn't have the same glory as the Father before the world existed. Jesus was with his God and Father before he was born on the earth.