Can "Evil" come from nothing?

[Beto]

The Christian god supposedly created the Universe (everything?). To some this god didn't create "Evil" but simply allowed it to exist. If this god is the creator of the Universe but didn't create "Evil", than "Evil" appeared by itself from "somewhere" or "nowhere". Either "Evil" is an uncaused cause, like this god itself, or it came from the same place as this god did, a pre-existing platform of sorts. My point is that an omnipotent God, to be such, has to create absolutely everything in existence. From my perspective, there can either be two uncaused causes, or this god had to create everything, "Evil" included.

[McCulloch]

Evil is simply the absence of good. Just as darkness is the absence of light.

I've been told that before. Are you sure? Do you have any citations or scriptures to back up that thought?

[twobitsmedia]

1. Creation of something out from nothing.
2. Creation of something out from something already in existence.

Can something be created out of nothing?

[atdcross]

This is ridiculous.

My apologies if I seem to be not making sense. The point I wish to make is that God did not create evil (that is, strictly speaking, moral evil) and that this position does not invalidate God's sovereignty.

I was hoping not to sound ridiculous.

Evil seems to me to be, not a "creation out from nothing" but, a "creation out of something," that is, the potential for evil is seen in our being created as rational, free will creatures. One problem with my analogy in discussing the existence of moral evil is that since evil in itself is not something physical like a car, my analogy break downs; it is the metaphysical aspect of evil that may make my example seem ridiculous.

A second problem is that, as far as the Christian account is concerned, evil existed before humanity through the agency of other rational beings; therefore, evil is not (it seems to me) something originally created by man. Man participated in moral evil; he did not create it.

As far as my reading of the Biblical narratives are interpreted, a number of these aforementioned beings - "angels" - created evil. They were endowed by God with the potential for moral good or evil. If it is insisted that evil had to come from nothing or something, I would choose the latter, that is, it came out of the divinely created potential, which these angelic beings were endowed.

However, as my analogy with the car, evil can exist without it having been a creation by God, at least, directly: "something out of nothing". Evil may be seen as a "deviation," not intended but permitted by God on the basis of his purpose for creating rational, free will beings. However, such deviation, with respect to the creation (which may not be the right word) of evil, is connected primarily with angelic beings; man, as previously stated, had no part in the "creation" of evil.

Making God the "first cause" or "author" of evil may be like blaming a morally good father for being the direct cause of his child robbing a bank. He may be the unintended or "accidental" cause, but he cannot be the first cause. The first cause of such criminal acts is the child.

As such, that is why (maybe awkwardly) I asked, who created the car? If God, then there no question of his sovereignty, although, his goodness may be legitimately doubted. However, if God did not create the car but it was "a deviation that came from somewhere else", to consequently doubt God's sovereignty is not necessarily valid, at least, not as far as I have come to understand the Biblical narratives that concern the existence of moral evil.

I hope this clarifies my use of the "car" analogy.

[4gold]

The Christian god supposedly created the Universe (everything?). To some this god didn't create "Evil" but simply allowed it to exist. If this god is the creator of the Universe but didn't create "Evil", than "Evil" appeared by itself from "somewhere" or "nowhere". Either "Evil" is an uncaused cause, like this god itself, or it came from the same place as this god did, a pre-existing platform of sorts. My point is that an omnipotent God, to be such, has to create absolutely everything in existence. From my perspective, there can either be two uncaused causes, or this god had to create everything, "Evil" included.

I agree with "ST_JB". Evil is the absence of good. It would be like asking whether dark or cold were created out of nothing.

[McCulloch]

I agree with "ST_JB". Evil is the absence of good. It would be like asking whether dark or cold were created out of nothing.

e·vil [ee-vuhl]

1. –adjective morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. –adjective harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. –adjective characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. –adjective due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. –adjective marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
6. -noun that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. -noun the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. -noun the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. -noun harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. -noun anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. -noun a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12. -noun a disease, as king's evil.
13. -adverb in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
14. -Idiom the evil one, the devil; Satan.

I see nothing in the definition of evil that indicates that it is the absence of good. Would 4gold or ST_JB please provide some citation, argument or reason why they believe that evil is the absence of good.

[4gold]

e·vil [ee-vuhl]

1. –adjective morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: evil deeds; an evil life.
2. –adjective harmful; injurious: evil laws.
3. –adjective characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days.
4. –adjective due to actual or imputed bad conduct or character: an evil reputation.
5. –adjective marked by anger, irritability, irascibility, etc.: He is known for his evil disposition.
6. -noun that which is evil; evil quality, intention, or conduct: to choose the lesser of two evils.
7. -noun the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin.
8. -noun the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: The evil in his nature has destroyed the good.
9. -noun harm; mischief; misfortune: to wish one evil.
10. -noun anything causing injury or harm: Tobacco is considered by some to be an evil.
11. -noun a harmful aspect, effect, or consequence: the evils of alcohol.
12. -noun a disease, as king's evil.
13. -adverb in an evil manner; badly; ill: It went evil with him.
14. -Idiom the evil one, the devil; Satan.

I see nothing in the definition of evil that indicates that it is the absence of good. Would 4gold or ST_JB please provide some citation, argument or reason why they believe that evil is the absence of good.

My church derives its doctrine of evil originally from St. Augustine, who wrote:

For what is that which we call evil but the absence of good?...what are called vices in the soul are nothing but privations of natural good. And when they are not transferred elsewhere: when they cease to exist in the healthy soul, they cannot exist anywhere else.

St. Aquinas reiterated it later:

I answer that, One opposite is known through the other, as darkness is known through light. Hence also what evil is must be known from the nature of good. Now, we have said above that good is everything appetible; and thus, since every nature desires its own being and its own perfection, it must be said also that the being and the perfection of any nature is good. Hence it cannot be that evil signifies being, or any form or nature. Therefore it must be that by the name of evil is signified the absence of good. And this is what is meant by saying that "evil is neither a being nor a good." For since being, as such, is good, the absence of one implies the absence of the other.

[Beto]

I agree with "ST_JB". Evil is the absence of good. It would be like asking whether dark or cold were created out of nothing.

I'm not doing many things that could be considered "good". This very second, I'm writing this when I could be doing "good" things for other people. Am I being "evil"? By your definition, it seems I am.

[Goat]

The Christian god supposedly created the Universe (everything?). To some this god didn't create "Evil" but simply allowed it to exist. If this god is the creator of the Universe but didn't create "Evil", than "Evil" appeared by itself from "somewhere" or "nowhere". Either "Evil" is an uncaused cause, like this god itself, or it came from the same place as this god did, a pre-existing platform of sorts. My point is that an omnipotent God, to be such, has to create absolutely everything in existence. From my perspective, there can either be two uncaused causes, or this god had to create everything, "Evil" included.

I agree with "ST_JB". Evil is the absence of good. It would be like asking whether dark or cold were created out of nothing.

The ancients saw evil as something unique and powerful on it's own. They saw darkness as something tangible, and not merely the absence of light.

Can you show that Evil is the mere absence of Good, or can you disprove that Good is the absence of Evil? Or, it is just metaphysical concepts that are meaningless outside the mind of man?

[McCulloch]

My church derives its doctrine of evil originally from St. Augustine, who wrote:

For what is that which we call evil but the absence of good?...what are called vices in the soul are nothing but privations of natural good. And when they are not transferred elsewhere: when they cease to exist in the healthy soul, they cannot exist anywhere else.

St. Aquinas reiterated it later:

I answer that, One opposite is known through the other, as darkness is known through light. Hence also what evil is must be known from the nature of good. Now, we have said above that good is everything appetible; and thus, since every nature desires its own being and its own perfection, it must be said also that the being and the perfection of any nature is good. Hence it cannot be that evil signifies being, or any form or nature. Therefore it must be that by the name of evil is signified the absence of good. And this is what is meant by saying that "evil is neither a being nor a good." For since being, as such, is good, the absence of one implies the absence of the other.

Thank you for the citations. Now we can start thinking for ourselves. Do you think that Augustine and Aquinas are correct? Why?

For example, it would be evil for me to incite lots of people in my village to kill those in the next village who worship a different god than we do. This is not the absence of good, but a positive act of evil. Up and down are opposites but down really cannot be defined as an absence of up.

[ParsonPat]

In post #2, ken1burton cited ISA 45:7, in which Yahweh boasted of making "peace" and creating "evil" in 45:7b. To the largely superstitious minds of the people in the time and place where this boast was made, that Judaic proof-text may have seemed true and real. Ditto for 45:7a.

Today, however, we know that both dark and evil are neither entities nor generated by the hocus-pocus of a supernatural boogeyman. "Dark" and "evil" are adjectives describing the absence of something else; i.e., dark is the absence of light, and evil is the absence of good. Neither dark nor evil can exist in and of themselves simply because they are empirical and tangible indicators of the absense of something else that is needed to change the perception of them.

E.g., when light is present, it can be scientifically measured in, say, a meteorologist's UV Index, or by the amount of candlepower it generates. When good is present, it can be discerned by the type of spiritual fruit it produces (LK 6:44a).

It's how one adapts to those absences, and how you or I make use of them, to do either benevolence or malevolence that's important. Any spiritual connotation applied to either dark or evil by mortal men, as suggested by the citations offered by Catharsis in post #3, is speculation based on hearsay.

And, in post #5, Greatest I Am stated: "Scripture says that the first evil appeared in Heaven in the form of Satan." Please provide a Scripture reference for that statement, as it doesn't seem to be in any Hebrew or Greek manuscript to which I have access. If you can't, is it possible that what you said might be just another 6th century pious platitude decreed by Pope Gregory the Great (who first introduced the concept of a "Satan" character into the Catholic churches), or of some other and pre-KJV Pope?