Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sat May 02, 2020 3:44 am

[Replying to post 1514 by onewithhim]

You wrote:Exactly how does this show disagreement with what I said?

You wrote:

The harvest time is the time leading up to the Great Tribulation, which we are living in now.

Matthew 13:

39 The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.

Er, you still haven't explained how I have erred.

O.K.

You say the harvest time is now, and leads up to The Great Tribulation. You do not say why you have called it "harvest time", or what "the harvest" is, or who does the harvesting..

Jesus says "the harvest" is "the end of the age", that those who will harvest are angels. They will do it by uprooting and separating those to be kept and those to be destroyed.

This, to me, refers to what will happen when Jesus returns; not before that, and not now, but then.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat May 02, 2020 11:31 am

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 1514 by onewithhim]
Jesus says "the harvest" is "the end of the age"

Yes he did and how in your opinion is that different from what Onewithim said?

onewithhim wrote:The harvest time is the time leading up to the Great Tribulation, which we are living in now. It coincides with "the time of the end" of Daniel 12:4 & 9.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sat May 02, 2020 11:48 am

Checkpoint wrote:You do not say why you have called it "harvest time", or what "the harvest" is...?

It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest of Christs remaining anointed brothers (meaning a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians firstly into his congregation and then later to his side in heaven).

Checkpoint wrote:...or who does the harvesting

Jesus does the harvesting. He uses the angels.

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun May 03, 2020 7:04 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 1514 by onewithhim]
Jesus says "the harvest" is "the end of the age"
Yes he did and how in your opinion is that different from what Onewithim said?

onewithhim wrote:The harvest time is the time leading up to the Great Tribulation, which we are living in now. It coincides with "the time of the end" of Daniel 12:4 & 9.

When Jesus said, in Matthew 13, "the end of the age" he was talking about the harvest, which he clearly equates with the final judgment that will separate the weeds from the wheat.

That has not yet taken place, so it is vastly different from what onewithhim said, which was: "The harvest time is the time leading up to the Great Tribulation, which we are living in now."

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun May 03, 2020 7:27 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:You do not say why you have called it "harvest time", or what "the harvest" is...?
It is called harvest time because it is a period marked by a spiritual harvest of Christs remaining anointed brothers (meaning a gathering of spirit anointed born again Christians firstly into his congregation and then later to his side in heaven).

Checkpoint wrote:...or who does the harvesting
Jesus does the harvesting. He uses the angels.

JW

The harvest Jesus describes in Matthew 13 is not taking place, or beginning to, now. It will not do so before his visible return.

That is not merely my opinion, it is what Scripture says, over and over.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun May 03, 2020 9:43 pm

[Replying to post 1519 by Checkpoint]

This hair-splitting is not encouraging in any way. You agree that the harvest time is leading up to the Great Tribulation, right? That is what I also said. Why keep straining out gnats? Do you have anything positive to say?

.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun May 03, 2020 11:48 pm

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 1519 by Checkpoint]

This hair-splitting is not encouraging in any way. You agree that the harvest time is leading up to the Great Tribulation, right? That is what I also said. Why keep straining out gnats? Do you have anything positive to say?

Of course my post 1519 to JW was not encouraging.
to you.

That was not its mission, and was not its intent.

It also was not hair-splitting or straining out gnats.

Rather, I am pointing out how, at times, the considerable difference there is, between what Jesus says and what you or JW say.

Perhaps discouragement comes with this territory of humans debating.

I get that, and admit it is discouraging to read what you wrote to me just now:

" You agree that the harvest time is leading up to the Great Tribulation, right? That is what I also said".

No, not right but dead wrong, onewithhim! That is your statement, not mine.

I have never said or implied that, and would not.

Not to worry, we all make mistakes.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon May 04, 2020 11:04 am

Checkpoint wrote:The harvest Jesus describes in Matthew 13 is not taking place, or beginning to, now.

In your opinion.

JehovahsWitness wrote: It will not do so before his visible return.

How do you know that?

JehovahsWitness wrote: That is ... what Scripture says, over and over.

Perhaps you would like to list those many scriptures?

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon May 04, 2020 3:30 pm

no text

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon May 04, 2020 3:42 pm

You are all poring unnecessarily over words, really. Not to be disparaging, but it is what it is. There is both an immediate and an ultimate sense regarding the harvest:

1. IMMEDIATE HARVEST -- evangelism, executed by the Spirit through Christians, who reap throughout the Church Age:
- a. past -- from Pentecost to now
  
  b. present -- we are (or should be anyway) all reaping some harvest in the same sense as Paul in Romans 1:13 ("...in order that I may reap some harvest among you...")
  
  c. future -- up to the time of Christ's return
Again, the Church Age is, in its entirety, a time of tribulation. There will be a significant ramping up of that tribulation, a Great Tribulation ("such as has never been seen," which we may in fact be experiencing now), but it's all one big "time of trouble" for "Jacob" (Israel, all of God's Elect, Jew and Gentile, that will finally be brought to an end at the return of Christ.

2. ULTIMATE HARVEST -- Jesus will send his angels to do His bidding, gathering the tares/weeds out of His kingdom at the end of the age (Matthew 13); the Judgment then ensues.

There's really no need for this disagreement. Neither the immediate nor the ultimate should be disregarded or soft-pedaled in any way.

Grace and peace to all.[/quote]