How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Purple Knight
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How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

This is not a question of whether or not evolution is crazy, but how crazy it seems at first glance.

That is, when we discard our experiences and look at claims as if through new eyes, what do we find when we look at evolution? I Believe we can find a great deal of common ground with this question, because when I discard my experience as an animal breeder, when I discard my knowledge, and what I've been taught, I might look at evolution with the same skepticism as someone who has either never been taught anything about it, or someone who has been taught to distrust it.

Personally my mind goes to the keratinised spines on the tongues of cats. Yes, cats have fingernails growing out of their tongues! Gross, right? Well, these particular fingernails have evolved into perfect little brushes for the animal's fur. But I think of that first animal with a horrid growth of keratin on its poor tongue. The poor thing didn't die immediately, and this fits perfectly with what I said about two steps back paying for one forward. This detrimental mutation didn't hurt the animal enough for the hapless thing to die of it, but surely it caused some suffering. And persevering thing that he was, he reproduced despite his disability (probably in a time of plenty that allowed that). But did he have the growths anywhere else? It isn't beyond reason to think of them protruding from the corners of his eyes or caking up more and more on the palms of his hands. Perhaps he had them where his eyelashes were, and it hurt him to even blink. As disturbing as my mental picture is of this scenario, this sad creature isn't even as bad off as this boar, whose tusks grew up and curled until they punctured his brain.

Image

Image

This is a perfect example of a detrimental trait being preserved because it doesn't hurt the animal enough to kill it before it mates. So we don't have to jump right from benefit to benefit. The road to a new beneficial trait might be long, going backwards most of the way, and filled with a lot of stabbed brains and eyelids.

Walking backwards most of the time, uphill both ways, and across caltrops almost the entire trip?

I have to admit, thinking about walking along such a path sounds like, at very least, a very depressing way to get from A to B. I would hope there would be a better way.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #161

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Your game has become rather tiresome. You have produced another long-winded post with lots of objections but no substance. These scientists are as invisible and inaccessible as some alleged creator being that some people believe in, so why should we care?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #162

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:11 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Your game has become rather tiresome. You have produced another long-winded post with lots of objections but no substance. These scientists are as invisible and inaccessible as some alleged creator being that some people believe in, so why should we care?
I'm sorry that what I said wasn't to your liking.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #163

Post by brunumb »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:14 pm
brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:11 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Your game has become rather tiresome. You have produced another long-winded post with lots of objections but no substance. These scientists are as invisible and inaccessible as some alleged creator being that some people believe in, so why should we care?
I'm sorry that what I said wasn't to your liking.
I'm sorry that I was foolish enough to let you drag me down this rabbit hole. Nothing gained and time thoroughly wasted.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #164

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:47 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:14 pm
brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:11 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Your game has become rather tiresome. You have produced another long-winded post with lots of objections but no substance. These scientists are as invisible and inaccessible as some alleged creator being that some people believe in, so why should we care?
I'm sorry that what I said wasn't to your liking.
I'm sorry that I was foolish enough to let you drag me down this rabbit hole. Nothing gained and time thoroughly wasted.
I really do not think its right to hold me responsible for disappointment arising from decisions that you've made, we're just talking, chatting, nobody owes anybody anything, perhaps your line of argument might carry some of the blame?

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #165

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm ...
Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Neither do you, or you wouldn'ta littered these pages without ever presenting these 'scientists', or these 'problems' for critical analysis.

Face it, your argument ain't nothing more'n "I swear it y'all, it's just I can't offer no reason to believe me."

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Sherlock Holmes

Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #166

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:21 pm
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 pm ...
Let's be clear you have no idea what these scientists see as problems in evolution, nor do you care.
Neither do you, or you wouldn'ta littered these pages without ever presenting these 'scientists', or these 'problems' for critical analysis.

Face it, your argument ain't nothing more'n "I swear it y'all, it's just I can't offer no reason to believe me."

At least when the grandgirls steal a cookie, they can offer a picture of the cookie monster when they get called on it
I simply do not see why I should waste time itemizing the numerous problems when if you really were interested you'd go and find them yourself.

There are serious difficulties facing several aspects of evolution, you either accept this claim or reject it but I make no apologies for stating what is a fact.

If my refusal to do your bidding is interpreted by you as evidence of me lying then so be it, that's your choice.

Remember, much of what I've been saying is that most evolution advocates are unware of the serious issues the theory faces and from what's been posted the past few weeks I do seem to be onto something.

None of you seem to know and none of you seem to care either.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #167

Post by brunumb »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:21 pm Neither do you, or you wouldn'ta littered these pages without ever presenting these 'scientists', or these 'problems' for critical analysis.

Face it, your argument ain't nothing more'n "I swear it y'all, it's just I can't offer no reason to believe me."
It's so darn easy for some to make sweeping claims, refuse to meet the burden of proof by backing them up, then stand back and blame the audience for not doing their work for them. Over the decades of engaging theists on discussion forums I have seen this strategy used numerous times. It only ends in frustration and wasted time. If you had a winning case wouldn't you slam it down on the table with pride? The truth is that they have nothing of substance but seem to gain satisfaction from keeping you dangling. Time to pull the plug on this one.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #168

Post by The Barbarian »

EarthScienceguy wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:14 pm [Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

Evolution is Crazy.

There are 3.5E9 nucleotide sites. So a 1 percent difference would mean 3.5E7 nucleotide changes would have to take place over 6 million years. That means that there would have to have been 116 new mutations every generation.
Most of us have dozens of mutations that were present in neither of our parents. So if you have a species of perhaps a million organisms, there would be maybe 50,000,000 mutations per generation. Even if the ratio of useful to harmful was 1/500,000, there would be plenty of time.
So for someone to believe in evolution they must have faith that in the past they were not mostly harmful.
See above. Your assumption is incorrect.
Even if there were no harmful mutations all 70 new mutations per generation would have to spread throughout whatever populations someone is saying that is evolving. There is simply not enough time for evolution to occur.
And now, you know better.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #169

Post by JoeyKnothead »

brunumb wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:49 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:21 pm Neither do you, or you wouldn'ta littered these pages without ever presenting these 'scientists', or these 'problems' for critical analysis.

Face it, your argument ain't nothing more'n "I swear it y'all, it's just I can't offer no reason to believe me."
It's so darn easy for some to make sweeping claims, refuse to meet the burden of proof by backing them up, then stand back and blame the audience for not doing their work for them. Over the decades of engaging theists on discussion forums I have seen this strategy used numerous times. It only ends in frustration and wasted time. If you had a winning case wouldn't you slam it down on the table with pride? The truth is that they have nothing of substance but seem to gain satisfaction from keeping you dangling. Time to pull the plug on this one.
While I respect the sage advice, I like watching the trainwreck of excuses.

I'm learning how to avoid answering the pretty thing when I get in trouble.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #170

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Laye edit to fix quotaters...
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:28 pm I simply do not see why I should waste time itemizing the numerous problems when if you really were interested you'd go and find them yourself.
"I simply don't see why I should be expected to show I speak truth regarding claims I make."

"On a debate site."
There are serious difficulties facing several aspects of evolution, you either accept this claim or reject it but I make no apologies for stating what is a fact.
"There are serious difficulties in showing I soeak truth, one of which might be I ain't."
If my refusal to do your bidding is interpreted by you as evidence of me lying then so be it, that's your choice.
"If my refusal to support my claim leads to folks thinking I'm a liar, I'm willing to live with that."
Remember, much of what I've been saying is that most evolution advocates are unware of the serious issues the theory faces and from what's been posted the past few weeks I do seem to be onto something.
"Remember, I will not support my claims, other'n to make me a bunch more of em."
None of you seem to know and none of you seem to care either.
"None of y'all're gonna get me to debate with honor and integrity, I don't care what ya say."

You got nothing.

You've single handedly set a new standard for nothing.

Nothing.
Last edited by JoeyKnothead on Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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