Why????

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1650 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

Why????

Post #1

Post by POI »

If a God exists, and this God wants us to know He really exists, and also wants us to know what He wants, then why doesn't He just tell us Himself? If the Christian God is true, He is either pleased, or at least content, with the publication of the Bible.

Many will argue the Bible is not inerrant. Many may also argue context, when reading. Others might argue it is literal, and the perfect word of God. How do we really know what Jesus did and did not say, being He bothered not to write/preserve any of it Himself? Etc... Regardless of one's position on the matter, I have to ask, why??? Meaning.....

For Debate:

1. Why didn't God/Jesus write the final canon Himself, and also preserve it in a way for which it could not later be completely corrupted?
2. How could we know it was from an actual divine source, you ask? Well, it could have been written/preserved in a way in which humans could not do at the time, or even now. Thus, at best, I guess skeptics could still argue it came from aliens/other. But certainly not from earthly men ALONE :)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

TRANSPONDER
Savant
Posts: 8460
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
Has thanked: 986 times
Been thanked: 3654 times

Re: Why????

Post #171

Post by TRANSPONDER »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #169]

But we saw a post elsewhere taling about how much bias an lies there is in what is put out - though that accusation was aimed at the secular world and science rather than at the old writings.

We cannot just take the old stories on trust. We do want to wring some historical hints out of the old tales. We may doubt Gilgamesh, Arthur, Robin Hood and Beowulf as real persons. We may question the old stories that read like reliable report, like Greek and Roman histories, Icelandic sagas, and the Chinese classics, because of elements that are frankly supernatural.

In just that way, we must question whether the Nativity and Eden and the Flood are on evidence Not True, and never mind excuses, appeal to far - fetched explanations, science denial or the last ditch attempt to save the Bible - 'metaphor'. I now argue that Exodus is not to be taken as a real event, nor the resurrection and maybe people are starting to question that. Similarly, even though I do credit Jesus as a Galilean, a crucifixion by Rome, and even a mission centered around the messianic acclamation at Bethsaida and the dust-up in the Temple (because of hidden details - but i could be wrong :mrgreen: :D ) ) but the Tomb guard must be questioned, the Penitent thief dismissed, and there have long been doubts about the Passover release (a custom not known to history). And the same with the massacre of innocents and the very circumstantial raising of Lazarus which I took as real for a long time, especially as (taken literally :D ) it looks like a put up job. (1) but I think it is written by John, simply because it isn't even hinted at in the synoptics. Contradictions are significant in eyewitness report, even though unreliability can be excused. But not that much.

So to cut it short. simple Christianity won't do. Even honestly, it is being too gullible and otherwise is deliberately ignoring real problems with Biblical credibility. Yes, O:) it should be read 'literally'; none of this 'metaphor' stuff, never mind trying to make it say what it doesn't (Slavery is slavery, not a retirement plan) but then, of course it looks wrong, and more wrong the more we look at it.

(1) Jesus in in Peraea gathering support, just as John did. A message is sent from Bethany where Mary knows where to send it. She didn't send the message to Galilee. Jesus waits two days, then arrives and Lazarus hops out of the tomb, at a word of command. Works well as a put up stunt.

Waterfall
Scholar
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Why????

Post #172

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to POI in post #160]

Namaskaram POI

I would love to talk with you about Jesus and answer your questions. But I will use another and better source than the Bible. I am talking about the book - Toward the Light. First this about the book...
PREFACE

THE the work that is hereby entrusted to humanity has come into being by means of intuition and inspiration through a female intermediary, my wife Johanne Elisabeth, née Malling-Hansen.
The book is divided into the following main parts: Ardor's Account , a historical presentation from the earliest times to our day, two ethical-religious speeches, The Speech of Christ and The Speech of God's Servant with related Parables , and a Commentary to Ardor's Account, chapter by chapter - except for chapters 18, 20 and 21. To this has been added a Summary of ethical, religious and philosophical content. The footnotes , unless otherwise indicated, are by the intermediary's spiritual guide, who is also the author of the Commentary and the Summary.
The Biblical names occurring in this work have been conveyed by the authors as they are known to the Danish people.
Further information about the circumstances surrounding the provenance and compilation of this work can be found in the more detailed Postscript , which is by the same author as the Commentary.

The main purpose of this work is to enlighten human beings on their origin, God's relationship to them, and the struggle between Good and Evil, Light and Darkness; and also to impart the true teachings of Christ, freed from the inventions and distortions of the centuries. In this respect it continues and concludes the work of the reformers of the Church.
As for the remainder of the content, reference is made directly to the text itself.
The transcendental world has requested that the following warning be given to all who come into possession of this book:
Those who read these writings should neither judge nor condemn until they have closely considered every thought in this book. Then they should let their conscience be the judge. Once their conscience has spoken, then they can speak and write according to its dictates. But everyone should bear in mind that those who speak against their conscience sin against the divine within themselves, they commit that which the Bible terms "the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost", and of which Christ says (see Ardor's Account 22 ): "But that which you have sinned against the holy within you, that shall you not be forgiven until you have suffered for it and repented of the evil you have done. Yea, I say unto you: beware the Day of Judgment; for then shall your words bear witness against you, then shall your words judge you."

Finally I wish to state that my sole task as publisher of this book has been to present the work as accurately as it was received by the intermediary. (See the preceding statement).

New Year's Eve, 1919
The Publisher

Since the authors of "Toward the Light" and its supplementary writings belong to a spiritual world, a world infinitely higher than ours, a human being was needed to represent them on Earth. They therefore addressed themselves to my husband and asked him to undertake this work, and he readily accepted. Although my husband passed away several years ago, in this third (Danish) edition, and in all subsequent editions, the name of the publisher will be his, whether I or anybody else will be performing the actual task of publishing the book.

May, 1939.
Johanne Agerskov,
née Malling - Hansen.

Let us jump to question 23 and the commentary. You may not understand it all because you have not read the book from the beginning, but I think you will get the point...
23.
Was Joseph of Arimathea able to Assist Jesus in his Work?

And behold, it came to pass, when Jesus was near Jerusalem, that a scribe came unto him and walked with him along the road, while they spoke with one another.
But the scribe was Joseph of Arimathea, a man of much learning, of much esteem.
And he was among those who yearned for the coming of the Messiah; and daily he prayed unto God that He would grant him the joy of beholding the long-awaited One.
And when God saw his heart’s yearning, He awakened in his mind the hope that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the promised One, the long-awaited One.
But Joseph dared not fully trust in this hope; for he had heard much evil talk among the scribes of this man named Jesus, and he knew that many of the elders and the rulers had complained to the Council in Jerusalem, had complained of the blasphemous speech of the Nazarene.

And when he heard that Jesus was near, he decided to see him and to speak with him.
And Joseph went forth from Jerusalem to meet Jesus.
But the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, followed him unseen upon this journey.
And the Elder sought to blot out the faint remembrance Joseph bore in his heart of the times that were before mankind; and when he stood before Jesus, his spirit knew him not.
But the spirit of Jesus knew his brother.
And Jesus said: „Brother, be welcome! Be with me and strive not against me.“
Joseph wondered greatly at these words.
And after a pause, he said: „Truly, I am not against you, but you are against me. Yea, you strive against all of us, who are the true leaders of the people, and you stir the people against us. Tell me, by what right do you this?“
Jesus looked upon him, but he answered him not.
Then Joseph continued to speak.
And he said: „Many say that you are the Messiah; and are you the One we all await, then should you not strive against us. Then should you gather the people about you, that together we may break the heavy yoke of bondage. Then should you gather all the people about you, that together we may cast off the heavy burdens that the heathen have placed upon our shoulders. Yea, are you the Messiah, then should you come unto us, for then should we make you the leader of all the people, then should we array you with the purple robe and place you upon the Throne of David, that we might thus fulfil the words that were spoken unto us of the Messiah. And then should all the people bow down before you, and they should all obey your words.“
But Jesus answered him and said: „Truly, I say unto you: I was not born unto the Earth to rule over mankind; for my Kingdom is not of this world. Truly, I say unto you: I have not come to gather the multitudes about me by force, I have not come to kill, nor have I come to cast out the strangers, nor to rob, nor to plunder. But I was sent unto the Earth to teach human beings to love one another , so as to bear witness to our Father’s Justice and to lead them all unto His Kingdom.“
While Jesus spoke thus, Joseph heard with his mind’s ear a faint and distant voice.
And the voice said: „Sustain one another, bear each other’s burden, do not fail!“
And Joseph listened to the words; his heart softened, and he said: „Are you the Messiah, then tell me, and I shall speak for your cause before all the people; then shall the elders and the rulers receive you upon my word.“
But Jesus answered and said: „Are you to speak for my cause, then must you walk with me, then must you give your great wealth unto the poor, then must you renounce all power, honour and esteem. Yea, truly, I say unto you: would you speak for my cause, then must you forsake all that is yours and walk with me upon the stony and dusty roads. Then should we sustain one another, then should we bear each other’s burden, and together should we lead humanity unto our Father.“
While Jesus spoke thus, Joseph heard the distant voice, once more.
And the voice said: „Follow your brother, do not fail!“
Then Joseph faltered, but again doubt arose in his mind, for the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, stood at his side and sought to confuse his thoughts.
And Joseph said: „Are you the Messiah, then tell me, then give me a sign, that I may know that your words are true.“
Once more Jesus looked upon him.
And he said: „Does your heart not tell you that my words are true, then can a sign help but little; for they who doubt and they who waver demand ever more signs, demand ever greater signs . Truly I say unto you: outward signs will never decide the doubts that are yours, they will but make them grow stronger, and then will hope and faith never turn to assurance.“
When Jesus had answered thus, he departed in anger; yea, his anger was so great that he did not turn to take leave of the scribe.
But from that time, there was no peace for Joseph of Arimathea; for the worm of doubt gnawed ever at his mind, and often his inner voice whispered unto him these words: „ Follow your brother, do not fail! “
But at these times, and in those places where Jesus spoke unto the disciples and unto the many who gathered about him, Joseph was often among the people, listening to his words.
And they saw one another, but they could not draw nigh unto each other; for their elder brother, and the curses that he had uttered, stood between them and bound their hearts.
And they both grieved deeply.
The commentary...
XXIII
Human beings would have possessed a more complete and truthful account of the earthly life and acts of Jesus if Joseph of Arimathea had fulfilled the mission that he had taken upon himself; for he had been chosen to write down the speeches of Jesus to the people. But doubt — one of the worst enemies of humanity — constantly influenced him, until finally he completely ignored the urgings of his conscience.
It goes without saying that in those cases where the Youngest were incarnated with the mission of bringing mankind the full truth, the Elder would make a special effort to prevent the Youngest from cooperating during their lives on Earth.
Since the Elder did not entirely succeed in leading Jesus away from the task he had taken upon himself, he tried in many ways and by every possible means to draw Joseph under his power and the power of Darkness — and in this he succeeded only too well.
Jesus is not entirely without blame in his relationship with Joseph. Later on, if he had tried gently and kindly to develop a closer relationship, he might have succeeded in making him acknowledge the task that had been placed upon him. But Jesus was unable to overcome his human anger toward Joseph.
The profound grief of the eldest of the Youngest over the wickedness, vice and misery of the people inevitably turned into anger in his human incarnation, but it was an anger of brief duration, flaring up when he saw all the sin and impurity about him. Only with respect to Joseph did he lose all self-control, because he fully perceived how much this man’s support meant to him, and he was unable to make any concession toward him. But the heavier burden of guilt lies with the Elder, as he was the one who tried to sow dissension between them in order to prevent the victory of the Light over Darkness.
The conversation between Jesus and Joseph is partially reflected in the Gospels (Matthew 19:16–22), but in completely distorted and unrecognizable form.
The accounts in the Gospels of Jesus’ „Temptation in the Wilderness“ are also based on this conversation with the scribe.

Several of the apostles and the disciples were present at the meeting with Joseph, and later, long after Jesus had died, when his friends commemorated him and in various ways tried to explain what they had experienced together with him, some of them stated that Satan, in the figure of Joseph, had tempted Jesus to assume the kingship so as to lead him away from his true mission among the people, but that Jesus had repudiated him with strong and harsh words. This interpretation of what had happened passed by word of mouth, as did so much about the life of Jesus, until it finally appeared in the Gospels in a distorted form, partly as The Temptation in the Wilderness, and partly as the account of The Rich Young Man in Matthew 19:16–22 previously referred to.

The one of the Youngest who was incarnated as Joseph of Arimathea has now fully atoned for the sins he committed as the man Joseph. Among other things, as a disincarnated being he has helped and supported Ardor in the preparation of that part of this work in which Ardor confesses his guilt of sin toward mankind. (See Ardor’s Account).
Your friend forever

Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.

Carsten Ploug Olsen

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1650 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

Re: Why????

Post #173

Post by POI »

Waterfall wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 12:20 pm [Replying to POI in post #160]
I would love to talk with you about Jesus and answer your questions.
Great, then answer my debate questions yourself.

For Debate:

1. Why didn't God/Jesus write the final canon Himself, and also preserve it in a way for which it could not later be completely corrupted?
2. How could we know it was from an actual divine source, you ask? Well, it could have been written/preserved in a way in which humans could not do at the time, or even now. Thus, at best, I guess skeptics could still argue it came from aliens/other. But certainly not from earthly men ALONE :)

Post 160 also asks similar questions, but the debate questions will suffice.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Waterfall
Scholar
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Why????

Post #174

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to POI in post #173]

Namaskaram POI

Let us not make Jesus into something he was not. He was a human being on a mission. Maybe we should go back to the "beginning" and take it from there and then see what questions you have for me. I will come with question 10 and 11 and the commentary to the text. You may not understand it all because you have not read the book from the beginning, but I think you will get the point. I hope we can have a good conversation :thanks:
10.
Was the Birth of Jesus Supernatural?
Was he Conceived by the Holy Ghost?

The earthly body of Jesus was conceived and born of the desire and will of man and woman.
And the eldest of the Youngest was bound unto this body, bound with the life-giving cord of the Light; for thus are all spirits of Light bound unto earthly bodies by the Will of God.
But God Himself guided and protected him in his arduous journeyings through life upon the Earth.
The commentary...
X
About eighteen centuries before the eldest of the Youngest was incarnated as Jesus of Nazareth, he was embodied as a human being for the fourth time as a priest in northern India.

In this human embodiment he became the true founder of Brahmanism, although not in the form that is known today.
Only a fraction of his original teaching has survived in the old myths and songs. A few highly distorted remnants of his ethical tenets can still be found in the scripture called „The Code of Manu“.

Jesus was born in Nazareth — at the home of his parents — and not, as tradition has it, in Bethlehem. The year of his birth has been established about five years later than the actual event. Since the 24th December has come to be honoured as the birthday of Jesus, the eldest of the Youngest does not wish this date to be changed. The correct date of his birth will therefore not be disclosed.

The accounts of the three wise men and the flight into Egypt are legend. Neither in a dream nor as a vision was the birth of Jesus announced to Mary or to Joseph. Everything on this subject is legend. None of God’s Servants (see the legend of Gabriel) has ever appeared before human beings, since no human being would be able to perceive these radiant beings of the Light, neither with the eye of the human body nor with the spirit’s eye.
However, God’s Servants have often spoken to human beings as an intensified voice of conscience, when the thoughts of the Youngest were unable to penetrate the Darkness.

The Angels mentioned in the ancient Scriptures have mostly been the Youngest, who with God’s permission and for some specific reason have appeared before human beings. But not all these accounts and legends are in accordance with the truth. In several cases what has been handed down is no more than fiction — figments of the human imagination.
Also the Eldest have appeared before human beings with the purpose of gaining greater credence or gaining greater power over them.
No human being has seen God, and no human being, incarnated or disincarnated, will ever be able to see Him until the journey to His Kingdom has been completed.

In the incarnations through which the eldest of the Youngest lived, God was his personal guardian spirit and guide (conscience) ᴐ: in constant thought-connection with the son. No one else has ever had God as guardian spirit from the moment they were born to life on Earth. But because of their unshakeable trust in God many of the incarnated Youngest have placed themselves under His guidance and protection and thereby rendered the guardian spirit superfluous, since God always takes into His care anyone who trusts Him implicitly. Only very few human spirits have ever become one with God’s Thought and Will during their life on Earth, and thus made Him their guardian spirit. But God watches over everyone and follows their earthly lives, just as through His Thought He often intervenes if the guardian spirits or His Servants fail in their attempts to guide human beings. However, God does this in such a way that He never applies any pressure on human free will.
Next question...
11.
What were Jesus’ own Thoughts Concerning his Mission on Earth?

In evil times he was born unto the Earth.
In evil times he grew up among mankind.
His thoughts were pure. His eye saw and his ear heard more than the feeble eyes and the deaf ears of human beings.
Love and compassion filled his heart. And his hands brought healing unto many.
But his countenance was sorrowful, for he bore the heaviest burden upon his shoulders.
And he was a stranger among human beings.
His eye saw much sin, many sorrows and much suffering.
And he heard people in the synagogue and in their homes cry unto their god to free them from the yoke of bondage and soon, soon to send them the Messiah , the promised, the long awaited One.
Slowly, God called to life the thought in the mind of Jesus that he was sent unto the Earth to deliver the people from the yoke of sin , and to cleanse their hearts of all impurity; that he was sent unto the Earth to teach the people to love one another, to strengthen their faith in their Heavenly Father.
Slowly the hope awoke in the heart of Jesus that he was the promised, the long awaited One.
But he dared not fully trust this hope.
And he pondered much on these thoughts.

Often he sat in the synagogue and studied the ancient Scriptures.
And he listened to the elders and to the scribes expounding the words.
But he found not the peace that he sought.
Long and deeply he studied the ancient Scriptures. And his heart became heavy, for the god of the Scriptures was often vengeful, and he was in no manner just .
But Jesus did not grow weary, he continued to seek until he faintly discerned a fond and gentle countenance — the God of Truth, of Love and of Compassion.
But the God of Truth and of the Light, whose countenance he discerned behind the Lord of wrath and vengeance, reminded him of the Father, whose image he bore within his heart.
And unto this Father he prayed fervently for help, for peace and for strength.
And God heard his prayer.
And He granted him strength, purity and peace of heart.
But at the moment Jesus knew himself to be strengthened, he went unto the synagogue and stood forth, and he spoke against the elders and against the scribes.
And all who heard his words wondered greatly, for his words were clear, and he spoke with much authority.
But some of the words of Jesus were these: „Behold, I say unto you; the god you fear and worship is not the God of Truth but the God of Falsehood! For I say unto you: should you search with care in the ancient Scriptures, which speak of this your god, then would you see how weak and faltering he is. Now he wields the scourge of vengeance and retribution over the heads of your forefathers and drives his people into exile, then he calls them back. Now he bids their leaders, through the prophets, take arms against their neighbouring peoples to plunder, to pillage and to slay, and when thus he has raged for a time with might and power, then he repents of his actions, repents of the evil that he has done, and promises to temper his wrath, promises to show greater mercy. Truly, truly I say unto you: this is not the God of Truth, this is not the God of Justice! – –
And what worship he craves of you!
How many beasts does he not bid you slaughter before his countenance, that this sacrifice may please him! How much blood is not spilt upon his altar, that the scent thereof may rise unto the heavens and delight his heart! — — — — —
Behold, I ask of you: is it not said unto you in the Law of Moses that you should not kill one another? And how often has your god not spoken, through the prophets, unto your forefathers and bid them slay thousands upon thousands of their enemies? And has he not promised your forefathers to reward them for these evil deeds with much glory, many riches and much land! Truly, I say unto you: that God who says, thou shalt not kill and that god who bids you kill are not the same; for that god who bids you slay your enemies, he is of the evil, and you should shun him. “
And Jesus continued to speak; for deep silence had fallen upon them all;
And he sought by the words of the Scriptures to show them the God of Love, of Truth and of the Light; the God who with perfect righteousness punishes the transgressions of mankind. He sought to show them the God whose embrace was open unto each repentant sinner, the true, the highest, the only God. He, who was not only the God of the Jewish people, but of all the world — yea, even the God of the heathen.
But when he fell silent, all were dismayed.
And the scribes spoke harsh and condemning words against him.
And the ruler of the temple stood forth and forbade him ever again to speak in the synagogue, yea, forbade him to expound the words of the Scriptures.
But Jesus answered him and said: „None has the power to bid me keep silent in my Father’s House.“
Then they all became yet more dismayed, and some cried: „Behold, the Evil One has possessed him and speaks through his mouth; hear how he profanes the holy and scorns the exalted.“
And they sought to drive him out of the synagogue.
But Jesus answered them not. And he walked of his own accord out of his Father’s House.

When the people in the city heard of that which had come to pass they wondered much, and many were angered.
But the parents of Jesus, the carpenter Joseph and his wife Mary, rebuked him sternly for the words that he had spoken in the synagogue against the elders and the scribes.
But Jesus answered them and said: „Know you not that I love you, and have I not sought to do your bidding? How much more, then, should I not seek to do the bidding of Him , who sent me? How much more, then, should I not love my Heavenly Father, love Him who reigns over all the Heavens?“
But they understood him not, and they grieved much, for they believed that his thoughts were confused.
The commentary...
XI
To the great sorrow of his parents Jesus had no interest in the trade of carpentry, in which his father wished to train him.
At an early age he sought instruction from the priests and the scribes and learnt to form his own opinions, which were often at variance with received tradition. He read the ancient Scriptures eagerly and was well versed in Egyptian religious cults. He also had some knowledge of Persian, Indian and Assyrian forms of religious worship. He often went to Jerusalem and studied there under the eldest and most learned of the scribes and scholars of the time. Jesus also visited other places where there were major synagogues in order to investigate and to study the ancient writings that existed there. His knowledge of languages was quite extensive for his time, and he had some acquaintance with Greek philosophy.
Jesus went about a great deal before his emergence as a religious founder and conversed at length with well-travelled people such as merchants and itinerant philosophers, but he himself never travelled beyond the borders of his homeland.
At the age of twenty-three he appeared in public for the first time, at the synagogue of his native town of Nazareth. Accounts of this event can be found in the Gospels, but they are all inaccurately reported (Matthew 13:54–57; Mark 6:2–3; Luke 2:42–50 and 4:16–30; John 7:14–20).
The fragments of Jesus’ speech in the synagogue at Nazareth quoted in Ardor’s Account are fully correct. On the whole the words of Jesus as they were spoken at the time are quoted by Ardor as accurately as possible, though allowance must be made for the fact that they are quoted in another language. For this reason it was not always possible, through the medium, to find words that fully expressed the Aramaic speech — but nothing has been changed or distorted in the thoughts that underlay the words used at that time.
The speech in the synagogue at Nazareth gave the scribes and high priests their first grounds for anger and hatred toward Jesus. Up to that time he had been regarded as a disciple and prospective „Rabbi“, but his words concerning their incorrect understanding of Yahweh, or Jehovah, put an immediate end to such hopes.
Your friend forever

Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.

Carsten Ploug Olsen

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1650 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

Re: Why????

Post #175

Post by POI »

Waterfall wrote: Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:04 pm [Replying to POI in post #173]

Let us not make Jesus into something he was not. He was a human being on a mission. Maybe we should go back to the "beginning" and take it from there and then see what questions you have for me.
Okay, are you a Christian of some flavor? If so, what denomination/other?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Waterfall
Scholar
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Why????

Post #176

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to POI in post #175]

Namaskaram POI

What a question ;-) I am just Krishna who thinks there is life after death and reincarnation :lol: To me Christ is a brother and someone to follow. I am not here to create a new religion, so let me come with question 35 and the commentary...
35.
Did the Youngest not seek to Counter the False Teaching that the Elder had Instilled in the Minds of Human Beings?

But when the Youngest saw their elder brother’s profound sorrow for mankind’s blindness, intolerance and lack of understanding, they agreed for a time to unite their efforts upon a single task : to destroy the false doctrines of Darkness and bring forth the pure teachings of Christ.
For this purpose several of the Youngest let themselves be bound anew to human bodies, and they let themselves be born unto the Earth in diverse lands and in diverse places.
And when their bodies and their spirits were become ready, they set forth and strove mightily to destroy the false teachings and to make the truth be known.
But only few understood them, and only few followed them, while many scorned and derided them — yea, some of them were persecuted unto death.
And among these was a man known to the people by the earthly name of Mani .
This man brought unto mankind some of the truths of the Light; and he spoke wise and eloquent words on that which lay beyond the earthly world.
But the Elder also was able to instil false teachings into his preaching of the spiritual truths; and neither full light nor full clarity was shed upon the teachings of Mani.
Many were they who listened to his words; some followed him, but still more derided and persecuted him; and these rewarded him with death for the truths that he sought to bring them.
Thus the Youngest continued in manifold ways to strive for the true teachings.
But Darkness and the Elder hindered the advance of the Light; Darkness blinded human beings and bound their thoughts.
Thus the Youngest strove from century to century, while Christianity, the false teachings of Saul , spread to distant lands.

Then came the century in which one of the Youngest, known by his earthly name of Mohammed , succeeded in proclaiming the teaching to humanity that God is One, that none is over Him, that none is under Him, and none is at His side. And he taught that God alone was the source of all creation, was the Creator of the Universe.
When Mohammed appeared before the people of his native land with these teachings, he was met with scorn, anger and contempt.
Few only listened to his words, few only followed him.
But as the years passed, he gained more and ever more followers. And as his enemies feared his ever-growing power, they sought to put him to death. When Mohammed learnt of their evil intentions, he left his house in the city of Mecca and fled unto the city that was later named Medina.
Mohammed’s dominion over the people became ever greater; an ever larger number of people gathered about him, and his words spread far and wide.
But the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, sought to confuse his thoughts, sought to defile his mind.
And the Elder awakened pride and the lust for power in his heart, awakened the passion and desires of his body, and his lust for beautiful women became insatiable.
Darkness descended upon him and he stumbled time and again; for his foot was caught in the snares that were laid for him.
And Mohammed summoned certain from among the highest in the land, and he spoke unto them and bade them to wage war upon their enemies, so as to propagate his teachings by force; for he proclaimed, falsely, that to God this would be a pleasing act. And he promised that God would reward those valiant men who died in battle; he promised that God would reward them for their victories with the most lavish and the most glorious pleasures of Paradise.
And with a mighty troop he went unto the city of Mecca, made himself the master of it and the ruler of the people, and all who refused to follow him were slain or were banished.
But from that time, Darkness gained yet greater power over him. His thoughts grew yet more confused, his teachings became less and less lucid, and often he would be at variance with his own words.
But Mohammed’s dominion over the people was not diminished, and he was honoured greatly; though he himself found no peace and no rest; for Darkness was upon him; for the Elder strove against him.
And when his body succumbed to earthly death, his spirit grieved that while he was a human being he had not been able to proclaim the whole truth ; grieved that he had not been able to break the power of Darkness.
But some time after Mohammed’s death people began to collect and to write down his teachings. Numerous sayings and doctrines appeared and were ascribed to Mohammed, sayings and doctrines that he had never spoken nor considered; and therefore arose much disagreement and multifarious disputes.
Thus became also the Holy Scriptures of the Mohammedans a mixture of good and evil, a mixture of the teachings of Mohammed, of the work of human beings, and of the false teachings of Darkness.

After the death of Mohammed, the Elder incited his followers and they waged war upon the neighbouring peoples, seized much land, much power and untold riches, and they forced numerous of the conquered nations to submit to the teachings of Mohammed.
But the Christians saw with anger that the teachings of the Prophet spread further and ever further; and they were astonished to hear that many even followed his teachings of their own free will.
And when it became known among Christians that the Arabian people had made themselves masters of Jerusalem, the Holy City, then they felt yet more anger, and they grieved deeply when they came to the city to worship and to linger at the holy places. And from this arose, over the following years, much strife between the Christians and the followers of Mohammed, the Prophet.
And yet later, when the tidings reached far across the lands that a warlike, Mohammedan people 16 had conquered Jerusalem, then hatred and the desire for revenge burned deep in Christian hearts. Many swore upon the Cross of Christ that they would drive out the strangers and recapture the city; yea, they even promised to crush and to destroy all who were enemies of the teachings of Christ.
Then began the cruel wars and battles between the Christians and the Mohammedans.
Now the followers of the Prophet won, now the Christians. Thousands upon thousands were slain, for one power would not submit to the other. And while century followed century, violence, murder and gruesome misdeeds were perpetrated in the name of God and Christ.
But as time passed and the Christians saw that the Sign of the Holy Cross by which they fought did not bring them the victory they expected, they became more and more disheartened. And when two centuries had passed, the Christians had to yield; for the followers of the Prophet were the stronger.
But during these numerous and protracted wars, Darkness gained ever greater power over mankind.
Bound to earthly bodies, the Youngest sought without cease to advance the truth and the Light; but time and again they had to give way to Darkness, for it had many and powerful helpers among the embodied Eldest.
Nor were the Youngest able to halt the endless disputes among the Christians.
New doctrines were devised, giving rise to new quarrels. Bishops and priests gathered unto themselves more and more power, greater and greater wealth. And raised high above them all, over nations, princes, kings and emperors, stood the highest of bishops, the socalled pope in the city of Rome. And against all who would not acknowledge his might and his power, he hurled his mighty curses; for the Vicar of God and Christ forgot the words of Christ: Forgive your enemies!
And with implacable hatred, the Christians persecuted all who would not profess the Christian faith. In many a place and country, the pyres blazed, where Mohammedans and Jews, the so-called heretics, were tortured and burnt to the honour of God and Christ. Many Christians even, who sought to protect the persecuted, were to follow the condemned unto the stake and suffer the same tortures, the same horrible death; for mankind forgot the tender words of Christ: Love one another as brothers and sisters!
Truly, the power of Darkness was awesome!

Deeper and heavier sank Darkness over the Earth, blinding mankind, dulling and binding their thoughts.
Numerous Christians bowed down in worship before painted and sculptured images of Mary, the mother of Jesus, bowed down in worship before numerous images of holy men 17 and women.
But in all this idolatry 17 , they often forgot to pray unto God the Almighty, forgot to pray unto their God and Father, forgot to pray unto Him , who alone was able to grant their prayers.
More and more pious men and women — monks and nuns — withdrew from the world and lived in their own retreats, under the laws of their own communities. But though these men and women vowed to live in chastity, not all of them were able to keep their vows. Only few were pure of mind, only few found their way unto their Heavenly Father, only few sustained the poor out of love and compassion; and only few ministered to the sick out of pity for their suffering.
Deeper and heavier, Darkness laid itself upon the Earth, and only few of the Youngest dared in human form to fight against the evil.
Then came the time when many of the Youngest were gathered once more with their elder brother, in the outermost sphere about the Earth.
And they spoke much with one another of that which came to pass at that time in the world on Earth, spoke with one another of the ways that they should follow to lead mankind out of Darkness.
But they were all faint of heart.
And one of them said: „Let us cease our work among mankind; for we are not able to lead them unto our Father’s Kingdom. Again and again have we let ourselves be bound unto earthly bodies; but none of us, while we were human beings, has yet been able to break the curses our eldest brother has hurled out. But not one of us, while we were human beings, has been able to pray for our brother and thus deliver him from the binding power of Darkness. We have brought only grief and suffering upon ourselves with our work among mankind; let us therefore return unto our Father’s Kingdom, that the children of the Earth may walk in their own ways.“
But when he fell silent, Christ, the eldest of the Youngest, stood forth.
And he said: „Though all of you turn from mankind, so shall I not forsake them; though there be none among you who will help me bear the burdens that mankind has laid upon my shoulders, so shall I never lay down these burdens, but pray unto our Father to help me that I may bear them all.
Truly, I say unto you: break not your promise; for be the power of Darkness great, so is the power of the Light still greater; and our Father’s words to us were these: if we will , then can we lead mankind unto His Kingdom of Glory and overcome Darkness. And the words of our Father are immutable! But would you follow me, then let us pray unto our Father to show us the way, for once more is the way lost in the mists.“
When he had spoken they all were silent, for they searched their hearts.
But in the stillness, God let His voice be heard.
And God said: „My children, be patient! For only they who have patience will be victorious! Fail not one another, nor fail your elder brother, nor ever break the promise you have given Me, your Father; for you must remember that My blessings are upon you, My thoughts follow you and My hand sustains you while you strive for the Light, for that which is true and for that which is good.
My children, hear My words, and I shall guide you.
Behold, I say unto you: once more must you bring the Light of the spirit and clarity of thought unto mankind; for they are no longer able to reason clearly; for they are not able to sift falsehood from the truth, the clean from the unclean. Teach mankind this! And you must gradually teach them to discover some of the eternal laws, teach them to release and to make use of some of the many hidden powers. You must teach them to look out into the vastnesses of space, teach them to discover and to measure the paths and orbits of the heavenly bodies. You must open the eyes of human beings unto the pure lines of earthly forms, unto the splendour and diversity of colour. You must teach them to listen to the fulness and beauty of music.
And when you have taught mankind all this, then will they themselves begin with wakened eyes and clear thoughts to perceive the web of lies that Darkness has spun about them; then will they themselves begin to search the ancient Scriptures, themselves sift out the grains of gold and cast away the dross of Darkness.
My children, I, your Father, have shown you the way. Follow it! For do you this, then shall My blessing be with you.“
But when God’s voice fell silent, they all answered: „Father, we shall follow the way that Thou hast shown us! Help us, that we may never fail!“
Once more many of the Youngest let themselves be bound unto earthly bodies, that once again they might bring the Light of the spirit and clarity of thought unto those human beings who were led astray by the Eldest and by Darkness.
But when they had brought greater knowledge and learning unto mankind, and dispersed some of the Darkness about them, would others of the Youngest follow, and seek to overturn some of the false teachings of the Elder, and thus prepare the way for mankind’s own study of the Holy Scriptures that were inherited from their forefathers.

The first who ventured forth to speak unto the children of the Earth on those matters that were as yet beyond their understanding were ill received and met with scorn, anger and contempt.
But more and more of them came forward with that which they had promised to bring.
Some of the Youngest taught people to cut alphabetic characters in wood and in metal, to use these to manifold the written words, and thus bring them into the possession of many. Others brought them greater knowledge of the world they lived in; and through perilous voyages new lands were discovered, and hidden riches won from the bosom of the Earth.
Some of the Youngest brought unto mankind new and useful implements, whereby daily life became easier to live. Others sought to retrieve the wise and profound writings of times gone by from the depths of oblivion.
Some of the Youngest brought joy to people by renderings of graceful images in clay, in wood and in hard marble.
Others portrayed the men and women of the Holy Scriptures and the earthly life of Christ in fine pictures, rendered the life and endeavours of mankind — all in the profusion, splendour and beauty of colour.
Once more mankind began to awaken; eyes were opened, thoughts became more free and more lucid. But only slowly did the Light advance, for the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, sought always to hinder its progress.
Closer and closer he drew Darkness over the Earth, and sowed yet more of his evil seed. And hatred, anger, violence, murder and iniquity thrived among human beings.
And the Elder strengthened the Christians in their worship of the Virgin Mary, strengthened their faith in the help and intercession of holy men and women, so as to hinder them in praying to God alone . And he strengthened them in their belief in the torments and sufferings of Hell, that the fear and terror thus awakened in their feeble hearts should give him greater power over them. And in their fear of Hell, many Christians sought to buy dispensation from future punishment with gold and with silver and precious gifts, sought to buy absolution from the mighty popes.
But the Youngest continued to strive for the advance of the Light; for God strengthened them, and God sustained them.
And again they taught human beings to build magnificent temples to the honour of God, taught them to build fine palaces for their princes, kings and emperors, taught them to embellish temples and palaces with vaulted domes, lofty towers and soaring spires.
And human beings were filled with joy for the splendour they beheld.

But Darkness lay heavily upon the Earth.
War and strife reigned everywhere.
The princes of the nations warred among themselves; the popes fought with the prelates beneath them, fought among themselves 19 , fought with emperors, kings and princes, while mighty curses were hurled against all who would not yield.
And the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, continued to strengthen humanity’s belief in the power held by the Prince of Hell over all sinners. And he implanted in the fearful the thought that a great many men and women were able to bring harm upon their enemies and opponents by summoning the help of the Evil One, and the socalled sorcerers and witches were persecuted with much severity. Many were tortured and burned for misdeeds which they had never committed, for people believed they saw evil spirits and demons wherever they turned.

But the Youngest continued with patience to work for the progress of the Light, for God strengthened them, and God sustained them.
And once more they taught human beings to look out into the vastnesses of space, taught them to follow the paths and orbits of the glittering stars. But for a long time this knowledge remained very incomplete; for human beings as yet possessed but few and imperfect means whereby they could observe the celestial bodies, whereby they could measure and reckon their positions and paths.
Some of the Youngest conveyed the thoughts and longings of their spirit in beauteous, resounding and melodious stanzas; and many human beings rejoiced at these new and beautiful things that they had received.

And the time came when the Youngest who had promised to prepare the way for humanity’s own study of the Scriptures came forth and sought to separate some grain of gold from the heavy dross of Darkness.
But among them were two men, who are known by the names of Luther and Zwingli .
These two grieved much over the blindness of human beings, grieved much over their profound debasement; and they both sought to break the yoke of bondage which Darkness had laid upon humanity.
And in their great zeal they both turned against the highest authorities of the Church, they showed how small and insignificant the popes were, despite their power and might; they showed how wretched they were in their anger, hatred and lust for power, and they both proclaimed that the popes, the Vicars of God and Christ, were by no means infallible .
And they sought to show the so-called Christians that they had become idolaters by worshipping the numerous images of holy men and women; for many knelt only before these saints, while they forgot to bow down before Almighty God.
Luther and Zwingli won many followers by their lucid writings and by their masterful speeches, for they awakened human beings to reflection.
But the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, sought to estrange them from one another. And these two, who before their earthly lives began had promised their Heavenly Father to walk together, became bitter foes; for the Elder stood between them, and he drew Darkness closer about them so that they were not able to agree upon a common teaching. For they were not agreed upon a great many things, for they fought against each other on many of the ancient doctrines.
And as the years passed, they also acquired many enemies and many adversaries.
But Luther was a mighty warrior, and he met all attacks with harsh words, with fiery and severe speeches; for none was able to subdue his proud spirit.
But although Luther himself at times erred, he continued to lead humanity toward the Light; thus he caused certain of the ancient Scriptures to be published, that human beings might seek consolation and sustenance from the study of the words and doctrines, which had been handed down from their forefathers.
Though Luther’s power and authority were great, though he was hard and unyielding toward his foes, he still remained faint of heart when alone; for he perceived that God’s full strength was not upon him. At times, he was seized by fear and terror of the Darkness that streamed toward him, and he felt that he was bound by the hatred that emanated from the Elder, the Servant of Darkness; so that at times he did not heed the voice which sought to guide him.
And Darkness gathered yet closer about him. Harsh and condemning words sounded from his lips. And when some of the people who laboured hard and suffered much united to secure more and greater rights for themselves, he angrily turned against them, and in his anger he cried out that these unworthy should be put to death , that their evil intentions should be destroyed.
But despite the many and grave faults of Luther as a man, he was able to reject certain of the false teachings of the Elder, and he and Zwingli together were able to bring humanity a few steps further toward the goal.
But neither of them was able to carry out that great work, which had been laid down before they were born unto the Earth, the great work that together they should have performed among human beings.
— When Luther and Zwingli met once more in the heavenly abodes, after death had broken their earthly bodies, they both grieved much over the enmity which the Elder had called forth between them while they lived upon the Earth. —
But yet more of the Youngest sought to sustain their brothers in the struggle against the papacy, and one of them is known by the name of Calvin .
His thoughts were lucid and keen, and with wise words he formed the new teaching.
But he was not in full agreement with Luther, nor was he fully agreed with Zwingli. For influenced by the Elder, he revived some of the ancient, rejected doctrines; he worded them anew and defended them with much authority.
Many followed him, and he was much honoured.
But Calvin was a stern man, and he demanded much of his followers, demanded purity, piety and obedience. And he was unbending in his sternness, for the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, stood at his side and hardened his heart, so that he pronounced harsh judgments on all who were against him; indeed, in the hardness of his heart, he even let one of his adversaries suffer death at the stake; for he had forgotten the words of Christ: Forgive your enemies!
Thus neither was Calvin able to break the power of Darkness, nor to overcome the curse of the Elder.
But even though Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin could not present the full truth, they were nevertheless able to bring forth some of the grains of gold in the ancient Scriptures, and were able to teach the Christians to study for themselves and reject several of the false teachings. And thus was some of the Darkness enshrouding mankind dispelled.
But with the attacks that those fearless men aimed at the papacy and the numerous fallacies of the Christian teaching, lengthy and fearsome conflicts and struggles broke out anew in many places. For as the years went by, and more and more people joined the new forms of the Christian faith, certain of the followers of the old faith sought to uphold the faltering papacy.
Further and more severe monastic orders were founded, some of the old fallacies were abandoned, and new, more stringent laws enacted, demanding greater purity, greater piety and greater obedience.
And the followers of the Papal Church sought to punish the apostates with fearsome persecution, torture, and death, seeking to halt the progress of the new Christian teachings.
Once again, Darkness descended more closely and more heavily upon the Earth.
Again, the pyres blazed to the honour of Almighty God. Thousands upon thousands were put to death. And in their blind hatred and lust for revenge, certain of the followers of the papacy had several thousand adversaries slain in a single night.
Truly, the power of Darkness was awesome!

And the time returned when nation rose against nation, brother against brother, ruler against ruler.
And while songs of praise rang out in the churches to the honour of God, murders, plunderings, and frightful misdeeds were perpetrated in His name !
Closer and heavier, Darkness descended upon the Earth. Poverty and misery abounded in the lands.
The fear of human beings grew greater yet, and they feared yet more the Prince of Hell and all his helpers. And sorcerers and witches were tortured and burned.
Darkness was everywhere and sufferings were everywhere; for the evil seed of the Elder sprouted and bore fruit.
But no longer were the Youngest faint of heart; for they trusted in God, their Father; for He strengthened them, and He guided them.
Amid suffering, violence, death and misery, they strove to advance the Light, strove to bring more knowledge and more learning unto human beings.
And when after each completed life upon the Earth they returned unto the heavenly abodes, many of them did not accept the rest that was rightfully theirs; for they all yearned to break the power of Darkness, for they all yearned to overcome the curses of the Elder; and they hastened to be bound unto new earthly bodies, that they might lead mankind forward toward the goal.

As century was added to century, the Youngest sought in numerous ways to augment the knowledge that they had already brought unto mankind.
And they gave unto humanity yet more of the splendid and colourful paintings, with which they adorned churches, palaces and the mansions of princes.
Slowly the Youngest taught mankind to study the structure of the human body, its tissues and cells; taught them to discover healing for some of the body’s many ills. Taught them to capture the winding ways of fleeting thoughts; taught them to form, clarify and preserve their thoughts in wise sayings.
And they taught them to listen to the beauty and fulness of sound. They taught them to fashion instruments, large and small, with which they could bring forth an abundance of pure and resonant tones, a diversity of beautiful and harmonious sounds.
They taught them to fashion instruments with which better to unravel the paths and positions of the glittering stars in distant space.
And they taught mankind to unleash some of the hidden powers of nature and how to draw benefit from such knowledge; taught them to study the many forms of life; taught them to discover some of those laws which govern creation — the least as well as the greatest.
As centuries receded, human beings learned to improve the routes and the highways between the many kingdoms and continents of the Earth; learned to locate and to unearth some of the beautiful cities, mighty temples and proud mansions of olden times; numerous hidden treasures were brought to the light of day from the bosom of the Earth, treasures which told of the life and customs of their forebears.

In this manner the Youngest brought ever more knowledge and yet greater learning unto mankind.
And as the years passed, the Light began slowly to spread once more across the Earth.
But there was still fighting and dissension; as yet, murder, killing and misdeeds still flourished. Princes, kings, and emperors were still able to rouse nation against nation in battle and destructive warfare.
Numerous Christians still kneeled in worship and prayer before the lifeless images of the holy men and women. Many still debated old and new doctrines with masterful words and fiery speeches; and numerous forms of Christianity arose.
But the Light continued to spread throughout the Earth — and slowly Darkness began to yield.
But the Elder, the Servant of Darkness, continued to instil his poison into the hearts of human beings. And in the minds of some he implanted the thought that God did not exist. And those who believed him stood forth, and in their folly they defended this blasphemous thought with great authority.
But Darkness continued to recede; and the Elder knew that he could no longer halt the advance of the Light; and he knew that the hour drew near when the power of Darkness should be broken.
Then fear and terror were born in his heart. For he knew that should the Light overcome him, then must he himself reap the evil seed that he had sown among human beings, he knew that all the curses that he had hurled out must turn against himself. And he feared that retribution would crush him and destroy him for all eternity. For he thought that for his sins there could be no forgiveness; for he forgot his Father’s infinite love, forgot His omnipotence, forgot His compassion.
The commentary...
XXXIV–XXXV
The historic survey that Ardor has provided in order to link the past with the present has been made as brief and as simple as possible. Only the essential main points are included, since anyone who so desires may study the many available works on world and church history, and so gain insight into the gruesome religious wars and other conflicts of bygone times, as well as the rulers’ tyranny and lust for power that drove them to commit the most hideous crimes in their quest for dominance.
Similarly may anyone who so desires study the many different sectarian deviations from the teachings of Christ and the resulting conflict, superstition and hypocrisy.
Your friend forever

Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.

Carsten Ploug Olsen

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1650 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

Re: Why????

Post #177

Post by POI »

Waterfall wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 8:53 am [Replying to POI in post #175]

Namaskaram POI

What a question ;-) I am just Krishna who thinks there is life after death and reincarnation
Well, this is why I asked. I have no interest in debating non-Christians in this arena, which is labeled http://debatingchristianity.com. But thanks anyways for your time :)
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Waterfall
Scholar
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Why????

Post #178

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to POI in post #177]

Namaskaram POI

I am happy for your kind response :thanks: You do not seem to understand my answer :study: Why do you think I am not a Christian? What does it take to be or become a Christian? Christ is my brother and someone to follow :heart: Let me come with this from a Christian friend of mine. He posted it on Facebook. The link is to the book - Toward the Light - and is for those who want to download it and read it in english (just scroll down in the link). You can not (at the moment) read the book in english anywhere else on the internet. I am not promoting a site. I am saying that to otseng. Should I remove the link from the quote...
Why have Jesus' simple love teachings been lost in the Christian religions?

First and foremost because man lives in a world that is darkened by the impermanent. Many people only believe what they see and experience on a daily basis. What really binds us together, the spiritual reality, we learn nothing about, even though this was Jesus' main message; the love of and from God, the love of our fellow men! It is a spiritual reality that we can also experience here in the face of our fellow human beings.
The external worship became more important than the internal. How and when we pray became more important than the meeting itself in a spiritual community. Because we do not need a church building to turn to God, We do not need priests who don't know the truth, but stand and repeat centuries of lies about God who sacrificed his son to save the rest of us from perdition. Those who still believe in these fairy tales that the church's false servants tell about God and the life of Jesus, are deceived and allow themselves to be deceived and are brainwashed to believe that they themselves are not responsible for everything they do! Yes, what father allows one of his children to suffer for what the other children do!
The churches and religions exist to have power over man, not to tell truths about our spiritual reality. But these truths are available to anyone who seeks with an honest desire to understand the context of why man lives in this world of suffering in a physical mortal body.
The church and religions have out played their role for enlightened people who seek the truth outside the domain of fairy tales and superstition.
Jesus' second coming has happened, his speech to humanity is found in the message "Toward the Light!" and everyone who honestly seeks answers to why man lives here on Earth, yes, why earthly life behaves as it does, will find the truth there!
https://vandrer-mod-lyset.dk/e-boeger/#page-content
Your friend forever

Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.

Carsten Ploug Olsen

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1650 times
Been thanked: 1110 times

Re: Why????

Post #179

Post by POI »

Waterfall wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:13 pm [Replying to POI in post #177]

Why do you think I am not a Christian?
Because: "Krishna is the eighth incarnation of the Hindu God Vishnu"
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Waterfall
Scholar
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:08 am
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Why????

Post #180

Post by Waterfall »

[Replying to POI in post #179]

Namaskaram POI

I am just a human being who thinks there is life after death and reincarnation ;-) Maybe you should watch this and come up with another answer...











Your friend forever

Waterfall
Love is the salt of life. It takes a moment to understand and eternity to live.

Carsten Ploug Olsen

Post Reply