Trust

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Should we trust a being that allows 250,000 of his creatures to die in a natural disaster without ever explaining why he allows such suffering?

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:22 pm

Todd wrote: I agree that the God of Judaism and Christianity are the same God, however I don't agree that God is also the God of Islam. This is because the God of the Bible says not to commit adultery, murder or to have more than one wife.

solomon had lots of wives, with God's blessing.

Mattu · Post by **Mattu** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:15 pm

You guys are getting off-topic, obviously because you neither have enough defenses for the original question.

Why would an all-loving God kill 250,000 people in a tsunami? You obviously haven't researched scripture or Chistianity at all to ask this question. I find almost ever athiestic question on these boards to be repetative and simply doing the same thing - trying to cut down the well built up truth of God's word.

Here's your answer my friend:
God is all-loving, and for that He gave us the right to choose. Because we are naturally born into sin and because when people stray or rebel from God and His word, sin is manifested, we get tragedies and disease. If every single person on this Earth worshipped God and knew that Jesus Christ was our savior for eternal life, you'd notice a difference. Because that it HUMANLY impossible by our sinful nature, unfortunatly we will never see that on this current Earth, not until God has His final judgment.

God did not want those 250,000 people to die in the tsunami, at least not every one of them. Also, for some reaosn, Todd seems to be projecting a message that if someone dies from a cause other than old age they are going to Hell, this is ridiculous. God can and will call us at anytime, when He sees fit. Then when we are claled, we are judged. Judgement does not mean anything negative, because you cna be judged and if Jesus backs you up and tells God you have put your faith in Him, you are golden and welcome to paradise.

Todd is young, as am I. He has a good heart, but has yet to understand the full context of the message sin the Bible, as I have yet to as well. My point here, however, is it is a very ignorant arguement, and one of the most common you ever see, when asking "Why does God X bad thing happen to X people". Don't blame Him, blame our sin and rebeliousness. It's really as simple as that. Without light, all that's left is darkness.

Question answered.

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:01 am

Mattu wrote:You guys are getting off-topic, obviously because you neither have enough defenses for the original question.

Why would an all-loving God kill 250,000 people in a tsunami? You obviously haven't researched scripture or Chistianity at all to ask this question.
.......
Question answered.

Nope. You have not answered the question. No wonder atheists are so 'repetitive', We have to hammer home the fact that Christians do not answer questions. They parrot 'answers' they find in books, never listening to what atheists are asking.

Here is the question I posed - the one you cannot answer. The one you did not answer.

Should we trust a being that allows 250,000 of his creatures to die in a natural disaster without ever explaining why he allows such suffering?

Has God appeared since 26/12/2004 to explain why he allowed so many to die? No.

When disaster threatens humanity, God passes by on the other side.

And we all know what Jesus thought of people who pass by on the other side.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:49 am

Todd wrote: Before I became a Christian I was an atheist (believe it or not).
Around this time last year I set myself a goal to disprove the Bible, I worked on that for about 4 months, and when I had continually failed I came to the conclusion that I couldn't disprove it because it can't be done

I find that interesting...what has disproving the bible got to do with a belief in god...god belief should be independent of the bible. If the bible didn't exist would god also not exist?

You think it imposible to prove the bible wrong. I would beg to differ, there are multiple inconsistencies, contradictions and absurdities in the bible. I guess whether they signify 'wrongness' is a matter of opinion.

Todd wrote: Yes and this is how the Bible says that people know weather or not they are saved, it informs us on how to be saved, and if I come across someone who claims to be saved because, say they think they're a good person I'm likely to rebuke them. (I won't go into detail on what I'd say but if you want me to then just ask).

We would do things differently - you and I

The god of judaism, christianity and islam is the same god, with different names.

Todd wrote: I agree that the God of Judaism and Christianity are the same God, however I don't agree that God is also the God of Islam. This is because the God of the Bible says not to commit adultery, murder or to have more than one wife. In the case of the Islam God not only tells Mohammed to kill people who don't listen to him, but Mohammed also has up to 4 wives (or something like that), one who was 6 years old.

Polygamy in Islam is not a command from god - it is based on an interpretation of the texts.

You will find god approved adultery, polygamy, rape and murder in the so called 'holy' bible. Why is it any different from the koran. Why is Allah any differenent from your version of god.

Polygamy and child marriage was (is) very much a cultural thing. I live in India - children as young as 12 or 13 marry and I see girls of barely that age with a baby. Children in some Indian villages are effectively married at the age of 6 or 7 - though they do not live as man/wife until in their teens or older.

Todd wrote: I think when we compare the Islamic God Allah to the God of the Bible you get a conflict of personalities and for that reason the 'one God' of both of these religions wouldn't be the same God.

I believe you are mistaken - god and Allah and YHWH are one and the same.

RevJP · Post by **RevJP** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:49 am

Steve, if you're an athiest why are you assuming God had anything to do with anything, much less passing anything by?

Shouldn't you be asking why has mankind let 250000 people die in the tsunami? Why didn't mankind do something to prevent it or stop it?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:59 am

RevJP wrote:Steve, if you're an athiest why are you assuming God had anything to do with anything, much less passing anything by?

Shouldn't you be asking why has mankind let 250000 people die in the tsunami? Why didn't mankind do something to prevent it or stop it?

Very good question Rev. Even if there was a god there would be SFA we could do to stop him smiting whom so ever he wished.

As there is not there could be something we as a community could do to mitigate the effect of such natural disasters. In the Pacific for example there is comprehensive tsumami warning system. Such a network on a world wide basis would perhaps provide some warning. It may no have helped those at the epicenter but Sri Lanka, Thailand and India may have not lost as many lives.

I doubt there will ever be the ability to prevent earthquakes, if that is what you are suggesting.

RevJP · Post by **RevJP** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:09 am

Suggesting? No, just wondering.

I'm being told constantly on this board that there is no God, that He is a myth, or a fabrication, or wishful thinking. Then I read from the same people things about why doesn't God do this or that, or why does He allow this or that, etc. etc. etc.

Just wondering why the question is even proffered if one believes there is no God.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:24 am

RevJP wrote:
Just wondering why the question is even proffered if one believes there is no God.

Perhaps the statements by atheists re. god should be included between these tags...

[irony]...[/irony]

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:58 pm

RevJP wrote:Steve, if you're an athiest why are you assuming God had anything to do with anything, much less passing anything by?

It is known as a reductio ad absurdum argument.

1) Assume there is an omnipotent God who taught that it is wrong to pass by on the other side
2) Show (which is obvious) that this all-powerful God passes by on the other side when disaster threatens humanity.

conclusion - assumption 1 is wrong.

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:01 pm

RevJP wrote:
Just wondering why the question is even proffered if one believes there is no God.

Of course, the *real* reason why the question is proferred is to see the diversions that Christians come up with rather than answer it.....