Condomnation

[jcrawford]

NEW YORK -- After Catholic leaders chastised city officials for a free condom program that they said was immoral, Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Friday defended the initiative as a "real world" tactic to combat HIV and AIDS.

"This is not an issue of faith, this is a health issue for the city," he said on his weekly radio show.

Cardinal Edward Egan, head of the Archdiocese of New York, and Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn released a joint statement on Thursday that said City Hall leaders "fail to protect the moral tone of our community when they encourage inappropriate sexual activity by blanketing our neighborhoods with condoms."

"The taxpayer money that is being spent to distribute condoms and promote the attitude that anything goes would be far better spent in fostering what is true and what is decent," said the statement from Egan and DiMarzio.

Bloomberg said Egan and DiMarzio, who together serve more than 4 million Catholics, have the right to communicate to their followers what they feel is proper behavior. But, he added, the city is trying to find ways to reduce its rates of HIV and AIDS, and other sexually transmitted diseases.

"They should preach to their congregants what they think is the appropriate ways to live your lives, but the health department has to work with the real world of people not practicing protected sex, not practicing abstinence, and this is a ways to keep people alive."

http://www.newsday.com/.../condomcondemnatio0216feb16,0,449731.story

Questions for discussion and debate:

Is it proper behavior on the part of Bloomberg to work only with people not practicing protected sex and to tell the Catholic church and all other Christians to mind their own business, because he thinks he is saving lives while the church is only concerned with saved souls.

How does Bloomberg know who is not practicing protected sex in the first place and what business is it of his what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

Isn't it time for this snooty little politician to get his big nose out of the public's private sex lives and to stop handing out condoms to Christian and Muslim schoolchildren on street corners and in public schools?

Have Bloomberg and his Health Commissioner Frieden, no morals or ethics at all but have become totally depraved and morally bankrupt while living in the "real world" of secular interests and unprotected sex?

Edited to shorten URL preventing extra wide page.

[Confused]

http://www.participate.net/node/1337

From your own site:

The Health Department had instructed the employees not to offer free condoms to minors, but The Post on Wednesday observed what appeared to be young teenagers taking handfuls of condoms.

This is the only mentioning of minors and they weren't being handed to them, some young teenagers may have taken some, but you cannot expect a few workers to notice everything. Nowhere in your ludicrous report does it say the government was interfering with teenage sexuality by condoning it via providing condoms. Once again, you present false facts in an effort to gain support for false reasons.

As the above website indicates, NYC has been handing out millions of condoms to minors in NYC public schools for years ever since the Rainbow Coalition introduced such immoral programs more than 20 years ago.

What is new is our mayor's utter disregard, disrespect and contempt for what certain religious leaders had to say about his immoral, corrupt and sexually perverted program.

My only criticism of the NY Archdiocese is that they have failed to organize a religious vigil and civil demonstration in front of City Hall protesting the mayor's sexually perverted program of encouraging Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren to fornicate and sin in the face of God.

1) The article you posted and the second site are two completely unrelated sites.
2) When I see you out there picketing or contributing in some other way than just constantly complaining on this site, I will take you seriously. Until then, you are just another person quick to point out the problems, but no solutions. SHOCKER!!!!

[Goat]

Christians, Muslims and Jews are commanded to marry, be faithful, fruitful and multiply.

We have done that. Look at the numbers of people in the world. Now what. We are also commanded to be stewards of the earth, and too many people on the earth mean we are not being GOOD stewards of it.

It is not up to Bloomberg to control the birthrate of Jews, Christians and Muslims by giving condoms to school age children. Married Jews, Christians and Muslims have the right to procreate and to send their children to safe, sex-free and drug-free public schools. When the public schools don't teach Christian children properly then Christians have every right to condemn and demonstrate against the corrupt and immoral secular mayor, school chancellor, health commissioner and head of the teachers union.

No, it is not. It is not Bloomberg's job to 'control the birthrate' of anybody. However, it IS his job to be worried about public health. The fact you consider
giving the people the option of protecting their health and to choose for themselves to use condoms as immoral is irrelavnet. The fact that your site
misrepresents what happened IS relavent. This is particularly true since this has
been pointed out to you, using your own sources, and you STILL repeat that falsehood.

These people are going to public school. As such, they are secularists.

The sexual indoctrination and exposure of Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren to the immoral sex practices of sex predators and secular perverts in the NYC public school system is contributory to the phenomenal rise of sexually transmitted diseases, pregancies, abortions and early death amongst teenagers during the past 30 years.

I am sure you would rather have the children in ignornace, rather then they learn about such things as responsiblity, prevention of disease, and such terrible things like evolution and biology.

Jewish, Christian and Islamic parents are responsible for seeing that their children in public schools get a proper education and not a secularly perverted one.

So, what now?? YOu are suddenly making Bloomberg from a secularist to a Jewish person?

He is a Jewish secularist and has no business regulating or interfering with the sex lives of Christian and Islamic families in America.

You are making claims about 'morality' that are imposing your view on others. If you don't like it. don't send you children to public schools.

Christians and Muslims have a civil right to send their children to public schools and not to be discriminated against on the basis of their religious beliefs. If you don't like Christianity or Islam, then don't send your children to church or mosque where they are taught to be Christians and Muslims who do not conform to the immoral sexual teachings and practices of secular school officials like Bloomberg, Klein, Freiden and Weingarten.

Since he is working in a secular environment, kosher or halal is relavent. you are mixing up Bloomberg as a secular person and a religious person.

He is not acting as a religious person when he advises city and public school workers to hand out condoms to Jewish, Christian and Islamic children on NYC streets and in public schools.

As for being 'anti-christian', that is an unsupported asserstion that I am sure the vast majority of christians will disagree with. I don't see how handing out condoms approves of teenage drinking , smoking and fornication.

NYC schoolchildren who are encouraged to use condoms when having sex are fornicating with the approval of a secular mayor et al, but do not have the blessings of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic leaders of NYC.

It is an education issue. You are building strawman attacks that are totally irrelavent to what happened and what the issues are.

The health, safety and moral well-being of Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren is a religious issue as far as NYC Jews, Christians and Muslims are concerned, because sex predators and secular perverts have no right to sexually indoctrinate and pervert the children of NYC Jews, Christians and Muslims.

as the web site pointed out, this wasn't as a school, this was on a subway. Your entire arguement is based on lies. Do you really want to do that?

[jcrawford]

It is not Bloomberg's job to 'control the birthrate' of anybody.

So why is the jerk handing out condoms to Jews, Christians and Muslims?

However, it IS his job to be worried about public health.

Then he should be forcing men with HIV/AIDS and other STD's to use them, not Christian, Jewish and Islamic schoolkids.

The fact you consider giving the people the option of protecting their health and to choose for themselves to use condoms as immoral is irrelavnet.

Adults have the option of purchasing condoms if they want to protect their health.

Children should have no choice in the matter and condoms should be forbidden them as smoking and drinking are. It is morally irrelevent for our sick secular mayor to ban cigarettes, transfat and alcohol for kids when he gives them free condoms and effectively tells them to go fornicate whether your parents and the Archdiocese like it or not.

Bloomberg is not our Christian Savior. Jesus Christ is, and Bloomberg may do well to accept Christian Salvation of his own life instead of permitting the deaths of Christian schoolchildren and unborn babies in NYC.

The fact that your site misrepresents what happened IS relavent. This is particularly true since this has been pointed out to you, using your own sources, and you STILL repeat that falsehood.

The first site references what the Archdiocese said about our corrupt and Satanic mayor.

as the web site pointed out, this wasn't as a school, this was on a subway. Your entire arguement is based on lies. Do you really want to do that?

The second site proves that condoms have been given to public schoolchildren on demand for years.

Obviously someone is lying and being dishonest, and as a Christian I would say that the secular socialists indoctrinating Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren into predatory and perverted sex acts are the biggest liars, frauds and hypocrites on the planet.

[palmera]

Children should have no choice in the matter and condoms should be forbidden them as smoking and drinking are. It is morally irrelevent for our sick secular mayor to ban cigarettes, transfat and alcohol for kids when he gives them free condoms and effectively tells them to go fornicate whether your parents and the Archdiocese like it or not.

And then no dancing, singing, playing loud music etc... First of all, it's already been pointed out that these "school kids" were not the targeted group for the condom hand-out; rather, some of them took it upon themselves, for whatever reason, to grab what they could.

You talk so often about "should" but hardly ever about reality jcrawford. In the real world, teenagers smoke, drink, do drugs, and have sex. Preaching to youth about abstinence has not, and will not ever serve as an effective deterrent for the problems you see. On the other hand, educating our youth does work. Responsible adults and leaders are those who don't turn a blind eye to reality, but take it for what it is and seek to improve upon it in whatever way they can.

Teenagers don't need free condoms to encourage them to have sex, we have hormones for that. This issue features some rare simple truths. Teenagers have sex. Regardless of what they hear in church or are taught in home, they have sex. It's human nature to explore. Drugs, sex, and alcohol use are a byproduct of that desire driven by our hormones. If you want to make the situation better, you have to accept that this has been and will always (and should always) be the case, then educate educate educate.

The solution is not to try to prevent this behavior all out- that's a waste of time- but to prevent the problems resulting from it through education and preventative materials.

Also, your constant language of segregation is over the top and bordering on ridiculous. Part of the reason religious persecution happens is because people tend to define others through a limiting set of factors, one being religion. When you parse out humanity like this, it's easy to see the world in skewed often absolute terms. Everyone has their little box they exist in. The problem is that you end up defining someone right out of existence- they become a concept, a thing, and not a unique individual.

Not sure where that was going.... anyway, one more thing. Christian, Muslim, Jewish children? In what world are children old enough to decide what they believe? Do you ever refer to democrat children or green children? Of course not. These kids may certainly be children of Christian, Muslim and Jewish parents but they are just kids. If they're not old enough to decide for themselves whether or not to drink or smoke or have sex, then how can they be expected to make a decision about the reality of the universe?!?!?!

[McCulloch]

So why is the jerk [Bloomberg] handing out condoms to Jews, Christians and Muslims?

Name calling does not help your argument. He is providing condoms to whomever needs them. If, as you claim, Jews, Christians and Muslims are free from sexual sin, then they will not avail themselves of this service.

[H]e should be forcing men with HIV/AIDS and other STD's to use them, not Christian, Jewish and Islamic schoolkids.

School aged children, for the most part, are not Christian, Jewish or Muslim, their parents may be but they have not yet committed themselves to a particular faith, for the most part. No one in government is forcing school aged children into sex acts. What they are doing is educating them, so that if they choose to engage in sex acts, they can know how to protect themselves.

Children should have no choice in the matter and condoms should be forbidden them as smoking and drinking are. It is morally irrelevent for our sick secular mayor to ban cigarettes, transfat and alcohol for kids when he gives them free condoms and effectively tells them to go fornicate whether your parents and the Archdiocese like it or not.

Let me follow your logic here. The secular government bans tobacco and alcohol for children in order to protect their health. Yet you claim that it is morally wrong to provide them with condoms which will also protect their health. I do not know about your particular mayor, but our secular government is not on record as encouraging children who are approaching adulthood to freely fornicate or to ignore the moral directives of their religious traditions. I truly doubt that this Bloomberg fellow is either.

Obviously someone is lying and being dishonest, and as a Christian I would say that the secular socialists indoctrinating Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren into predatory and perverted sex acts are the biggest liars, frauds and hypocrites on the planet.

This statement is over the top even for you.

[Greatest I Am]

At one time men wanted virgin brides and this fact went a long way in preserving chastity for women.
The fact that we do not at this point in time place value on virginity is likely a prime factor in lowering moral standards in the community. A change of attitude on the part of both men and women is required.

Why men lowered their standards, I don't know. Do you?
Why have we settled for used goods?
Is there a way to reverse this trend or will we become like the Ohopa monkeys and just whip it out at any old time with no regard or respect for the recipient or for ourselves.

Regards
DL

[palmera]

Why have we settled for used goods?

Who knows? We should ask the women of our society. Of course, they've been forced to accept use goods for thousands of years...

The desire for a virgin bride had more to do with one's own station in society than protecting the sanctity of marriage. A virgin bride was a sign of status in patriarchal societies throughout history. If a man's bride was not a virgin, then it was a mark on his manhood. Why? Because women were viewed as chattel. A man owned his woman, and a sign of his ownership was her virginity-a sign that she was his and his alone. We romanticize virginity, forgetting about the cultural roots of that desire.

[jcrawford]

At one time men wanted virgin brides and this fact went a long way in preserving chastity for women.
The fact that we do not at this point in time place value on virginity is likely a prime factor in lowering moral standards in the community. A change of attitude on the part of both men and women is required.

A change of political leadership for Orthodox Jews, Christians and Muslims is required in NYC.

Why men lowered their standards, I don't know. Do you?

As the men and their political leadership in America become less Christian, they become more depraved and debauched.

Why have we settled for used goods?

To the extent that the morally depraved and debauched depise virtue they seek comfort and solace in sordid activities.

Is there a way to reverse this trend or will we become like the Ohopa monkeys and just whip it out at any old time with no regard or respect for the recipient or for ourselves.

Like Greece and Rome before it secular America will just sink in the cesspool of filth it is creating and the Christians will just have to reconstruct civilization anew as they did after the fall of the Roman Empire.

[McCulloch]

At one time men wanted virgin brides and this fact went a long way in preserving chastity for women.
The fact that we do not at this point in time place value on virginity is likely a prime factor in lowering moral standards in the community. A change of attitude on the part of both men and women is required.

Why men lowered their standards, I don't know. Do you?
Why have we settled for used goods?
Is there a way to reverse this trend or will we become like the Ohopa monkeys and just whip it out at any old time with no regard or respect for the recipient or for ourselves.

I don't see it as lowered standards. It is a realization that what had been called valuable is in fact worthless. Used goods is an insulting way to refer to any human. Why would it make any difference to a marriage partner whether or not there had been previous sexual experience? Why are you talking only about men lowering their standards? If men expect women to be chaste prior to marriage why should not women expect men to be chaste prior to marriage? If marriage is for procreation, as some Christian anti-gay activists claim, then why not require that brides have at least one child before the wedding?

It has been noted that in societies where female chastity has been enthusiastically protected, such as Taliban rule, women's rights and freedoms are repressed and the incidence of rape increases. Female genital mutilation is but one expression of the raised standards you speak of. Are women people or commodities?

[jcrawford]

In the real world, teenagers smoke, drink, do drugs, and have sex.

Only because the perverted secular liberals allow them to. Under Islamic and Christian Socialism juvenile delinquents are punished for disobeying their parents and teachers.

Preaching to youth about abstinence has not, and will not ever serve as an effective deterrent for the problems you see.

Sending juvenile delinquents to Reform School will effectively serve as a deterrent to their rebellious insubordination and disobedience till they are 21.

On the other hand, educating our youth does work.

Secular education doesn't even work for secularists let alone for Jewish, Christian and Muslim children.

Responsible adults and leaders are those who don't turn a blind eye to reality, but take it for what it is and seek to improve upon it in whatever way they can.

The only adults and leaders responsible for good education and discipline in the US are Jews, Christians and Muslims. Secularists are responsible for all that is wrong with American education.

Teenagers have sex. Regardless of what they hear in church or are taught in home, they have sex. It's human nature to explore. Drugs, sex, and alcohol use are a byproduct of that desire driven by our hormones. If you want to make the situation better, you have to accept that this has been and will always (and should always) be the case, then educate educate educate.

Then educate the kids who have sex to take responsibility for their fornicating and if they infect anyone with a deadly disease, then they are responsible for that person's well-being and life. Teach the kids that anyone who gets infected must report all their partners to the state, and if anyone dies from AIDS, their partners are guilty of murder.

The solution is not to try to prevent this behavior all out- that's a waste of time- but to prevent the problems resulting from it through education and preventative materials.

I read in the NY Times today that curcumcision cuts the risk of AIDS in half. Do you recommend circumcising all students in public schools in order to reduce the risk of AIDS by half and if not, why not?

Also, your constant language of segregation is over the top and bordering on ridiculous. Part of the reason religious persecution happens is because people tend to define others through a limiting set of factors, one being religion. When you parse out humanity like this, it's easy to see the world in skewed often absolute terms. Everyone has their little box they exist in. The problem is that you end up defining someone right out of existence- they become a concept, a thing, and not a unique individual.

Save your sermon for the secularists.

Not sure where that was going.... anyway, one more thing. Christian, Muslim, Jewish children? In what world are children old enough to decide what they believe? Do you ever refer to democrat children or green children? Of course not. These kids may certainly be children of Christian, Muslim and Jewish parents but they are just kids. If they're not old enough to decide for themselves whether or not to drink or smoke or have sex, then how can they be expected to make a decision about the reality of the universe?!?!?!

Christian, Muslim and Jewish children are born into Christian, Muslim and Jewish families and are raised in whatever religion their parents are.